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Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

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Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#221

Post by erentz »

krunck wrote: post #62
erentz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hezbollah has launched over 10,000 rockets at Israel since Oct 7 last year. While under the watch of the UN. But apparently Israel is supposed to just do nothing about it and accept it going on for as long as Hezbollah likes. Absolutely no other country on this planet would. So many people seem to have a special set of double standards they apply to Israel for some reason.

Which attack came first? Who is responding to who? It just doesn't matter any more. Hezbollah and Israel need to calm the fuck down. And one more thing. I get to criticize the living fuck out of Israel because as an American I am paying for most of it's weapons.

Which came first in your mind? Are you trying to go back to 1948 here? I mean why stop there we could say this is all stems from the assassination of Franz Ferdinand leading to the invasion of and break up of the Ottomon empire. But we have to live in the reality we have today.

In this reality Hezbollah started attacking Israel after Oct 7 in support of Hamas’s attack on Israel. But for that happening Israel would not be invading southern Lebanon to try and put and end to these attacks now.

There is nothing at all wrong with criticizing Israel, I am deeply annoyed with a lot they do, the right wing element and the West Bank settlers are really ruining the ability to reach a two state solution. (Palestinian leaders also share blame in not reaching this outcome too sadly.)

The problem is that people so often have double standards and expectations of Israelis they would never apply to anyone else. And they definitely never seem to have similar expectations for Hezbollah or Hamas. This isn’t constructive and gets kind of antisemitic after a while (Jews are different, hence unrealistic expectations, they should just take the rocket fire and never respond). It’s a weird lack of empathizing with Israelis as also being real humans behaving as real humans anywhere would. This really doesn’t help bring about any kind of peace.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#222

Post by stogot »

catlikesshrimp wrote: post #118
EasyMark wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m fine with that as long as numerous other countries get kicked for similar acts, it has to be a package deal tho

As I see it, UN at least is documenting everything as it happens to its members. Hopefully it can be kept unbiased for a long time. If you start kicking left and right, there will be no UN to overlook events. Maybe without a UN, we would already be having a WWIII. It is impossible to weight its influence, but I very much doubt it is having any nefarious effect. No need to sledgehammer the world until it gets better

Too much faith/credit in the UN. With the security council, not much has or can happen. Beyond that there’s also incompetence. Look up jadotville or Dag Hammarskjöld (suspected to have been assasinated)

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#223

Post by nujabe »

adrian_b wrote: post #172
tzs wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not say or imply that I have objections to what you wrote. Your comment strongly implied that you think that Israel overreacted to Oct 7. So I am curious what you think their response should have been. > Unfortunately, it is hard to discern legitimate interest vs. someone wanting to engage in a debate for the sake of it. And I am not interested in wasting my time figuring out which is the case. Is curiosity "le…

Israel has not overreacted to Oct 7, they have just applied the same policy that they have used for many decades "at least ten of theirs for each one of ours". This policy is an effective deterrent against enemies, but it should be obvious that with such a policy it will never be possible to end any conflict unless absolutely all enemies and all their relatives or friends are killed. There have been times when the re…

>This policy is an effective deterrent against enemies, but

Why do you consider this an effective strategy, when the same strategy has been used for decades yet the violence keeps getting worse?

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#224

Post by ahdignfndj »

erentz wrote: post #221
krunck wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which attack came first? Who is responding to who? It just doesn't matter any more. Hezbollah and Israel need to calm the fuck down. And one more thing. I get to criticize the living fuck out of Israel because as an American I am paying for most of it's weapons.

Which came first in your mind? Are you trying to go back to 1948 here? I mean why stop there we could say this is all stems from the assassination of Franz Ferdinand leading to the invasion of and break up of the Ottomon empire. But we have to live in the reality we have today. In this reality Hezbollah started attacking Israel after Oct 7 in support of Hamas’s attack on Israel. But for that happening Israel would no…

Just because other countries started by brutally colonizing the natives does not mean we should let Israel continue doing it. A true solution requires some admission of guilt on their end for the past century of death and destruction and a path forward that creates a state that is not tied to Jewish identity. Much like other western nations, they will have to learn to deal with a diverse population by abandoning their previous culture and religion.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#225

Post by erentz »

ahdignfndj wrote: post #224
erentz wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which came first in your mind? Are you trying to go back to 1948 here? I mean why stop there we could say this is all stems from the assassination of Franz Ferdinand leading to the invasion of and break up of the Ottomon empire. But we have to live in the reality we have today. In this reality Hezbollah started attacking Israel after Oct 7 in support of Hamas’s attack on Israel. But for that happening Israel would no…

Just because other countries started by brutally colonizing the natives does not mean we should let Israel continue doing it. A true solution requires some admission of guilt on their end for the past century of death and destruction and a path forward that creates a state that is not tied to Jewish identity. Much like other western nations, they will have to learn to deal with a diverse population by abandoning thei…

Israel is simply not going to decide to cease to exist. People living in Israel are not going to up and leave. They’re not going to say “sure take my house” any more than you would. This kind of thing is entirely magical thinking that can only happen because you aren’t able to generate any kind of empathy for people living in Israel.

Kids born in the West Bank or Gaza today are not helped to have a better future by this kind of thinking you’re pushing here.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#226

Post by cutler »

edanm wrote: post #166
cutler wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's because social media has relayed the truth and Israel can no longer use its grip on western media to conceal its atrocities.

Maybe. Worth considering that in terms of relative size, Israel has a population of 10 million, Jews in the world number ~14 million. Whereas the Arab world, which tends to be relatively anti-Israel, numbers ~220 million. And Muslims, which tend to be anti-Israel as well, number 1.2 billion . So just in terms of number of voices, the natural pro-Israel voices [1] are vastly outnumbered by the natural anti-Israel voic…

But Zionists have AIPAC and its equivalent in Europe and Australia.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#227

Post by aguaviva »

invalidname wrote: post #140
7thpower wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has far more influence in the US than the US does in Israel. It is very clear that the current administration is backed into a corner and trying to make the best of the situation. FWIW: This is not a knock against the current administration.

This is often repeated but is historically VERY incorrect. Yes, Israel does lobbying in the states and does influence (like every other country). The current Israeli government is indeed terrible and blatant at that. However, Israel left Gaza in 2005 with no deal as part of US pressure (which led to the current situation). Israel offered a Palestinians a country which included east Jerusalem twice based on US pressur…

Israel offered a Palestinians a country which included east Jerusalem twice based on US pressure.

On which occasions?

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#228

Post by dlubarov »

SauciestGNU wrote: post #86
zajio1am wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, UNIFIL for the last twenty years pretty much ignored the other unauthorized military force in southern Lebanon, Hezbollah, so why they should care about IDF?

Hezbollah is part of the elected government within the in internationally recognized borders of Lebanon. It might be illegal for them to fire at Israel, but it's not illegal for them to be present. It is illegal for Israel to be present within Lebanon's borders.

Hezbollah's presence might not be illegal under Lebanese law, but it is illegal under UNSC 1701.

Israel's current presence might technically also be illegal under UNSC 1701, but Israel has a very strong casus belli from self-defense, having been bombarded for the past year.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#229

Post by aguaviva »

erentz wrote: post #225
ahdignfndj wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because other countries started by brutally colonizing the natives does not mean we should let Israel continue doing it. A true solution requires some admission of guilt on their end for the past century of death and destruction and a path forward that creates a state that is not tied to Jewish identity. Much like other western nations, they will have to learn to deal with a diverse population by abandoning thei…

Israel is simply not going to decide to cease to exist. People living in Israel are not going to up and leave. They’re not going to say “sure take my house” any more than you would. This kind of thing is entirely magical thinking that can only happen because you aren’t able to generate any kind of empathy for people living in Israel. Kids born in the West Bank or Gaza today are not helped to have a better future by t…

People living in Israel are not going to up and leave.

Which is fine, because the parent isn't suggesting that they do anything of the sort.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#230

Post by stiltzkin »

libertine wrote: post #13
Qem wrote: post #7

At this point the country should be suspended from UN, like Apartheid SA was before, in 1974. See https://www.nytimes.com/1974/11/13/archives/south-africa-is-...

The UN is in need of serious reform. For example, it's hard to comprehend how a country like Russia is not suspended? A country which signed the Charter, and is member of the security council, is trying to annex a country of 40 million people, claiming they and their culture don't exist. They don't even hide the genocide intent, and yet Guterres is visiting the BRICS conference in Russia legitimizing the regime. Desp…

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