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Rider is now free for non-commercial use

jetbrains.com

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Re: Rider is now free for non-commercial use

#391

Post by exceptione »

Timon3 wrote: post #282
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #18

WebStorm too https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-ride...

Hm... I'm not sure whether this is a good or bad sign. I've been a Jetbrains user & proponent for many years, with most of my usage in WebStorm. But over the last ~2-3 years I've faced more and more bugs, some sitting open for weeks and months. Just for a short selection: - The autocomplete popup sometimes froze the IDE completely (and killing the process caused minutes of data loss), open for close to a year[0] - Si…

  I'm pretty close to dropping my subscription, and this news
  doesn't fill me with confidence that the necessary investments
  in Q&A will be made.
... or Jetbrains is trying to get more paying customers in, so they can get these issues resolved.

Re: Rider is now free for non-commercial use

#392

Post by sigseg1v »

elAhmo wrote: post #158
withinboredom wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100k loc is not big. That’s a small-medium sized project.

100k lines of code is definitely big and by no means a small project.

Just my experience, but at multiple companies, which are in the 50-70 employees range, their C# codebases were over 1 million LOC and I didn't get the feeling that they were exceptionally large or doing anything significantly different. I would put 1 million LOC as "medium enterprise . NET" which would place 100k in the small or possibly medium sized if there was significantly more LOC in another language that is part of the project that you aren't counting (eg. different web front-end).

Re: Rider is now free for non-commercial use

#393

Post by throw4950sh06 »

pnathan wrote: post #263
tokinonagare wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> VS for Mac was junk. Better off trashing it and pushing people the VS Code route. Sure but VS Code for C# is trash as well. All those years, both Microsoft products, and this the experience is subpar, especially in comparison to the real Visual Studio.

Tried vs code recently, remembering old vs. Yeah not even in the same room of competence imo. Just a cranked up notepad++ in electron and with add-ons imo.

The extensions are how you make it a proper IDE. I use cca 60, makes it better than VS ever was.

Re: Rider is now free for non-commercial use

#394

Post by ezst »

wiseowise wrote: post #285
ezst wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My very personal opinion is that LSPs haven't contributed very much in the area of turning text editors into cohesive and integrated development environments that I enjoy using. One still gets to spend a lot of time and energy fishing for the right extensions, some with overlapping or incompatible scopes and capabilities. And this to be repeated for every project, framework and language. That's very ad-hoc, unsatisfa…

> What should be the deciding factor is the resource consumption, then: if you end up with a less refined and less capable LSP+Extension enhanced text editor, it better be lightweight, right? Well, here again it's pretty clear that those LSPs and Extensions are everything but that, and not only JetBrains IDEs start fast (which was a big area of focus recently), they also respond better using comparable resources. Wha…

> What kind of nonsense is that, lmao.

I mean, immense corporate codebases is the bread and butter of IntelliJ Idea and where it has a reputation to shine. I don't doubt that you are commenting in good faith, but the exact opposite of your experience is what most people have been saying about it over the years. Have you considered reporting the issue to them?

My experience of vscode LSPs across several languages is that they too use many GBs of RAM over time, just what you would expect from an IDE (and not from a text editor), while delivering pretty poorly feature-wise (unlike idea-based editors, I can't trust vscode to know how to rename variables across languages e.g. from models into templates/SQL, and that's a pretty essential bar to cross in my book).

Re: Rider is now free for non-commercial use

#395

Post by ezst »

cageface wrote: post #333
ezst wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My very personal opinion is that LSPs haven't contributed very much in the area of turning text editors into cohesive and integrated development environments that I enjoy using. One still gets to spend a lot of time and energy fishing for the right extensions, some with overlapping or incompatible scopes and capabilities. And this to be repeated for every project, framework and language. That's very ad-hoc, unsatisfa…

Every time I decide to try a Jetbrains IDE again I give up after a few days. They're always eating insane amounts of RAM and lagging hard while indexing my code again and again and again.

Indexing is IO-heavy and does slow things down, that's the nature of it (and Windows is dramatically bad at that), but they have improved quite substantially in this department recently: whole indexes of large libraries/runtimes can be fetched from the internet so your computer won't be the billionth device to re-index the whole JVM, the IDEs are starting faster, and more features are being made available while indexing in progress (giving less of an impression that "nothing works" when opening a project).

Re: Rider is now free for non-commercial use

#396

Post by jchw »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #364
graypegg wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had to guess, there probably isn’t any direct monitoring of commercial-ness in the IDE, but also guessing there’s Jetbrains employees watching for public statements that mention/screenshot a Jetbrains product and will contact the business if their company is not on file. Only need a few hits to make that worth while.

I have company laptop and wanted to try writing something in rust (I found this on RustRover page) but I believe this violates my company's policies. However TBH I don't believe that if data goes somewhere it cannot be deanonymised. I would be more comfortable with clear license "this is my project, you can see it and I am not using it commercially", but not with "you must allow us to send some anonymous data"

I believe IntelliJ IDEA IDEs have a 30-day trial. If you get the trial license and use that instead of the community version it should be entirely possible to never enable telemetry.

Though, I think this still requires contacting a license server (either at your company or at Jetbrains directly) so maybe that doesn't really fix the problem.

Re: Rider is now free for non-commercial use

#397

Post by kwanbix »

LtdJorge wrote: post #390
kwanbix wrote: post #370

I have a very good perception of Jetbrains as a brand, even though I have only used YouTrack for some days. What I don't understand is, why do they have so many IDEs instead of a single one? Is it really necesary? Are language writting/editing needs so different? Honest question here.

For tighter integration. For example, pip in Python is very different from Cargo in Rust o $whatever in C and C++. They are purpose built and integrate better with the language and tooling.

I get that, but do you think it is so different that they can not have different modules in the same IDE? I mean, visualstudio, for example, supports all languages from the same IDE.

Re: Rider is now free for non-commercial use

#398

Post by newaccount74 »

KacharKhan wrote: post #388
innocenat wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also offer a personal license, which I would say should be affordable to any devs if they were getting money. Rider is $149/year for the first year, $119 for second, and $89/year for the third year onward.

That calculation does not hold for developing countries. Rider's license fee is huge in countries with per capita GDP is a small fraction of USA's per capita GDP.

We should probably look at developer salaries / hourly rates rather than GDP. Most of the people in developing countries don't need IDEs.

But yeah, if you work for low rates, then you have to work more hours to pay for your tools.

Re: Rider is now free for non-commercial use

#399

Post by memsom »

pjmlp wrote: post #384
memsom wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't touched C++ Builder since mid 2000's. Does it still rely on the VCL? That was always the criticism I heard at the time. The VCL was written in Pascal and no C++ developer liked that it was not C++. It constantly got flack for it. The VCL was good at the time, but Pascal is more akin to C# in the way it does inheritance, so no multiple inheritance was able to be done with VCL components IIRC.

Yes and no, VCL is around, although it has been replaced by FireMonkey. Multiple inheritance in C++ is a can of worms, unless you're prepared to deal with the related issues of virtual base classes, and diamond inheritance. That is why after C++ all the languages that support multiple inheritance do so only at the interface level and not implementation code, or rather go with a mix-ins approach. And in regards to Mic…

Yeah, the VCL was the first UI framework I used.

With regards to multiple inheritance, this was the C++ Builder criticism, not mine. That and the extra macros needed to support the VCL. I was a Delphi guy, so I appreciated that the Object Pascal version of using the VCL was cleaner to use than the C++ interface.

We no longer use C++ for UI. Any native code is wrapped up in to P/Invokes. I think all of our MFC apps are EOL now. Everything is WPF or Maui for cross platform.

Re: Rider is now free for non-commercial use

#400

Post by memsom »

nilawafer wrote: post #306
klik99 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah they originally had a separate branch "Rider Unreal" but now it's part of Rider, C++ support seems mostly the same across both, except for project support. If IIRC Rider doesn't support CMake projects, but it does support vsproj projects, so if you generate vs files from cmake it'll load fine, but probably better to use CLion for any non-UE projects if using C++. I guess they're seeing it as .NET/GameDev IDE. Ho…

JetBrains IDEs are all the same program just bundled with different language plugins. It would be like if you called VSCode by a different code name depending on which combination of extensions you had installed.

If you open, say Android Studio (or IntelliJ) and start a new project, then open Rider and start a new project - the UI is actually very different for how the projects are managed. PyCharm is different too in different ways.

I think the differences are more akin to the old Visual C# Express and Visual Basic Express IDEs vs Visual Studio. Visual Studio was always "everything", but you used to get the express versions that were "low cost" or free. They only had the single language in them. They were customised to just that language. This is what Rider is to IntelliJ Professional, except from what I understand, the plug-ins for IntelliJ are not always on a 1:1 feature parity. This can even be seen with Android Studio and IntelliJ Community. The Android tooling in IntelliJ Community is almost the same, but it does miss out some stuff in Android Studio. Because Android Studio is specifically for Android development, and IntelliJ Community is more general purpose Kotlin and Java development. I think the Kotlin Native support is slightly better in IntelliJ Community.

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