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Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

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Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#141
post #114

I have been flagged in this thread by merely re-iterating points mentioned in the Financial Times article. @dang — I doubt you’ll see this, but I would appreciate some help. This is pretty sad.

Me too, for giving context that the article elided. Flagging is supposed to mean "breaks guidelines" not "disagrees with my outlook". Strange that this is the only topic that inspires such zeal.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re missing the point here. The only reason the U.S. cares about Hezbollah is because they attack Israel. The only reason Hezbollah exists is because of Israel. The reason the Houthis are attacking shipping is because the U.S. supports Israel. Being an ally to Israel has imposed huge costs on the U.S. and virtually no benefits. Many in the U.S. feel that protecting Israel is a moral cause, but it is undeni…

> The only reason the U.S. cares about Hezbollah is because they attack Israel. No, another is that they are proxies of Iran, which the US has problems with that go beyond attacking Israel.

[dead]

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#143
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent point. But assuming you're not being facetious, the Security Council is largely a historical artifact: all five permanent members were the victors of WWII. (Why occupied France was included is something I never understood.)

Council came first for some, but they were also the first 5 nuclear powers. In one case, Mainland China got the bomb in '64 and replaced Taiwan on the security council within a decade.

While it's true nuclear proliferation began with the five permanent members, at the time the UN and Security Council were founded in 1945, only the US had the bomb.

The USSR didn't test one until 1949, the UK in 1952, France in 1960, and China (as you mentioned) in 1964. The Soviet Union had an early start because of their spies in the Manhattan Project, while the UK contributed to it during the War. 15 years would pass before another permanent member caught up.

And Russia took the USSR's seat just as China did Taiwan's.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#145
post #5

"Israel has also said that UN forces are being used as a human shield by Hizbollah fighters, which it is fighting near several Unifil posts along the border. It has demanded the UN evacuate its peacekeepers from southern Lebanon for their own safety. Unifil, and the 50 countries that contribute troops to its ranks, have unanimously refused." Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? Did they let Hezbollah fire rock…

Unifil has been there since the '70s, apparently. Their role was to monitor Israel's withdrawal and to assist the Lebanese government, to patrol the Blue Line and various humanitarian tasks. They're not a counterinsurgency force or an occupying army - as I understand it, they're a tripwire for treaty enforcement. Also, you don't get to shoot through human shields. It's still immoral to kill noncombatants, just as it'…

> Also, you don't get to shoot through human shields.

I am not saying it’s morally correct but from a war crime standpoint, I think you actually do. As longs as it’s proportional, you can attack combatants hiding under civilians, even if you kill civilians by doing that. At least that’s my understanding.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#146
post #74

Is that the same UN that has its secretary-general António Guterres shaking hands with Putin and Lukashenko this week? Let's be honest, UN is one of the most useless organization in the world (and been for a while, look at history of their Africa operations). By now their presense on ground with inability to actually do anything or help anybody is a liability (eg can't stop Hezbollah from launching rockets and using…

They being there has been informative. We know of israel attacking UN bases. We are yet to see Hezbolla militants holding white hats at gunpoint. Or at least hiding in a tunnel under a UN base

There have been thousands rockets fired from southern Lebanon into Israel. So, Israel doesn't need permission from the UN or the international community or the US to invade and take out Hezbollah. Certainly not UNIFIL, who have been entirely useless as peace keepers.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#147
post #96

[flagged]

Although you rightly condemn the IDF's terrorist origins, you fall into the trap of labelling genuine resistance movements as terrorist. Was the French Resistance a terrorist organisation? Or the Polish Resistance? Given the brutal occupation executed by Israel in Palestine why is armed resistance, in your eyes, taboo? This is not a football match between two equal sides. This is, and always has been, asymetric warfa…

You have it precisely inverted. Hezbollah, Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood are not "freedom fighters". They are a supremacist, revanchist, Islamist movement hiding behind the notion of "occupation", funded by the government of Iran. The French and Polish resistance movements in WWII aimed to liberate their countries from Nazi occupation and restore legitimate governments, operating with support from the Allied forces as part of a recognized war effort. Their tactics targeted military objectives, respecting international humanitarian laws. In contrast, Hezbollah and Hamas have broader ideological goals, including regional control and, for Hamas, the eradication of Israel, using tactics such as rocket attacks and civilian-targeted violence, which violate international law. Unlike WWII resistance fighters who returned to civilian life post-conflict, Hezbollah and Hamas retain military power within their political structures, acting as armed entities beyond immediate defense. Hezbollah and Hamas are internationally designated as terrorist organizations, unlike the WWII resistance movements, which had legitimate standing under international law.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#148
post #74

Is that the same UN that has its secretary-general António Guterres shaking hands with Putin and Lukashenko this week? Let's be honest, UN is one of the most useless organization in the world (and been for a while, look at history of their Africa operations). By now their presense on ground with inability to actually do anything or help anybody is a liability (eg can't stop Hezbollah from launching rockets and using…

The biggest issue we are facing now, it is that the same has happened ot the previous organization, League of Nations Union, which became useless to prevent WW II, UN was born after the war with the goal to be a better organisation than it predecessor.

And here we are, at the edge of WW III, with an useless UN.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I didn't: your assertion still doesn't make sense. No Oct 2023 attackers came from Lebanon (it's quite a long distance away from southern Israel after all), so how exactly are they supposed to "give them up"? They're all in Gaza. Hezbollah doesn't control Gaza.

So basically they would just have to stop shooting rockets at Israel and it would be over?

Probably not, at this point. Israel left it to the UN, which failed to maintain peace and order. I imagine the intent would be to smash Hezbollah like Hamas.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#150
post #5

"Israel has also said that UN forces are being used as a human shield by Hizbollah fighters, which it is fighting near several Unifil posts along the border. It has demanded the UN evacuate its peacekeepers from southern Lebanon for their own safety. Unifil, and the 50 countries that contribute troops to its ranks, have unanimously refused." Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? Did they let Hezbollah fire rock…

Unifil has been there since the '70s, apparently. Their role was to monitor Israel's withdrawal and to assist the Lebanese government, to patrol the Blue Line and various humanitarian tasks. They're not a counterinsurgency force or an occupying army - as I understand it, they're a tripwire for treaty enforcement. Also, you don't get to shoot through human shields. It's still immoral to kill noncombatants, just as it'…

> “Also, you don't get to shoot through human shields.”

When the human shields are serving willingly as human shields, I will say that yes, you get to shoot through them and keep your moral high ground.

Not only those UN troops have no reason to be there, but there are numerous reports that several of their members are working together and aiding Hezbolah.

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