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Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

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Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#51

Post by g-b-r »

Sabinus wrote: post #36
g-b-r wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In extreme situations it might be acceptable to involve innocents, but that's a very far cry from what has been happening

[flagged]

> Is it? Hamas and Hezbollah deliberately place their military infrastructure among civilians.

I'm not eager to defend Hamas or Hezbollah, but for Gaza, is there a lot of free space?

Using human shields anyhow, does NOT mean it's the other's fault if you bomb then.

It's entirely your own decision, if you know that they're there.

Do you really think there was no other way, to deal with the problem?

Personally, for me the most absurd aspect of the situation is that you're creating an enormous amount of members for the Hamas' of the future.

However good a person is, and however quiet by nature, they wouldn't be human if a percentage of them wouldn't look for revenge, after having all their relatives killed, endured surgeries without anesthetics, and seen there was no good justification for that.

Which is what some Israeli politicians would probably like, anyhow, to give them arguments for the future elections.

Nothing will be solved. Unless you kill them all? Well, I think there would be a lot of Arabs who'd seek revenge for them, if so.

By the way, with using shields the Israeli might well just mean mean having a tunnel passing under a condo, or that an Hamas member sleeps there rather than, where? Hamas barracks? Along with your family, forever, with a target on your back?

CNN [1] today said:

> There is ample evidence for it: weapons located inside homes, tunnels dug beneath residential neighborhoods and rockets fired from those same neighborhoods in the densely packed territory.

I don't think that's what people think about, when hearing about human hostages.

Furthermore, the IDF seems to wait for the targets to be at home, just because there they're easier to target [2] .

[1] https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-h... [2] https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#52

Post by boomboomsubban »

nimbius wrote: post #40
Qem wrote: post #7

At this point the country should be suspended from UN, like Apartheid SA was before, in 1974. See https://www.nytimes.com/1974/11/13/archives/south-africa-is-...

In 1986, then-U.S. Sen. Joe Biden said, “Supporting Israel is the best $3 billion investment we make. Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interests in the region.” Israel is a satellite state of the US in all but name. You'd have a better shot at dissolving the UN entirely than suspending Israel. What ive always wondered is why the US hasn't put Israel…

>What ive always wondered is why the US hasn't put Israel on the security council, considering it is a nuclear armed state.

That isn't the criteria for being a council member, if it were they'd need to allow India, Pakistan, and North Korea. Plus, pretty sure the US does not officially recognize Israel as a nuclear power, it's one of those open secret things

Besides that, how would the US benefit from another country being able to veto anything they want to do in the UN? Sure, they'd probably agree with far more things than Russia or China, but the US wouldn't gain anything from them being there.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#53

Post by jcgrillo »

libertine wrote: post #13
Qem wrote: post #7

At this point the country should be suspended from UN, like Apartheid SA was before, in 1974. See https://www.nytimes.com/1974/11/13/archives/south-africa-is-...

The UN is in need of serious reform. For example, it's hard to comprehend how a country like Russia is not suspended? A country which signed the Charter, and is member of the security council, is trying to annex a country of 40 million people, claiming they and their culture don't exist. They don't even hide the genocide intent, and yet Guterres is visiting the BRICS conference in Russia legitimizing the regime. Desp…

https://x.com/wartranslated/status/1849582050191266182

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#54

Post by rendall »

Israel has a pretty compelling argument. I wish the article had mentioned it. That they did not leads me to believe the article is biased.

The argument goes like this: UNIFIL had one mission, which was to disarm and disband any military force in Lebanon south of the Litani River that was not Lebanon's army. UNIFIL has not done this. This is known and well-documented. Hezbollah regularly fires rockets and missiles into Israel. Hezbollah has built bunkers within sight of UNIFILs own posts. If true, this is not only a clear, systemic failure of their mission, but such an egregious failure that their presence is actually dangerous to civilians.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#55

Post by swaits »

erentz wrote: post #47
leoh wrote: post #20

Part of the story here, really, is that the UN has been co-opted by Hezbollah in Lebanon. Another part of the story is: where was the UN when Hezbollah launched rockets from Lebanon this week? Unless the UN starts doing serious counter-terrorism, Israel is not going to particularly care about their presence in Lebanon.

Hezbollah has launched over 10,000 rockets at Israel since Oct 7 last year. While under the watch of the UN. But apparently Israel is supposed to just do nothing about it and accept it going on for as long as Hezbollah likes. Absolutely no other country on this planet would. So many people seem to have a special set of double standards they apply to Israel for some reason.

This times 10^6. Nicely said.

There is a staggering amount of ignorance present in the other comments here.

I was ignorant too. But I spent a good amount of time educating myself this year. I hope others do the same so they can make completely informed assessments. I worry about tribalism and politics driving too much of the thinking.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#56

Post by tzs »

Cyph0n wrote: post #32
Sam713 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disputing general truthfulness of Israeli government, but specifically as to the latter two examples you listed: A) There is no direct evidence that Israeli government publicly stated that babies were beheaded. That claim came from a single journalist, spread like wildfire on social media (as did tons of videos and footage of the attacks), and was exacerbated by a statement Biden made. B) there is very credible e…

The bigger problem is that these lies spread “like wildfire” via Western media outlets - with zero fact checking or confirmation. These images were then used to justify the rampage in Gaza. As far as I am aware, not a single Western media rag has issued an apology for this. In many of our eyes, never again will they be able to claim credibility or professionalism in their reporting. In addition, Western rags took Isr…

What do you think the Israeli response to Oct 7 should have been?

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#57

Post by ioblomov »

nimbius wrote: post #40
Qem wrote: post #7

At this point the country should be suspended from UN, like Apartheid SA was before, in 1974. See https://www.nytimes.com/1974/11/13/archives/south-africa-is-...

In 1986, then-U.S. Sen. Joe Biden said, “Supporting Israel is the best $3 billion investment we make. Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interests in the region.” Israel is a satellite state of the US in all but name. You'd have a better shot at dissolving the UN entirely than suspending Israel. What ive always wondered is why the US hasn't put Israel…

Excellent point. But assuming you're not being facetious, the Security Council is largely a historical artifact: all five permanent members were the victors of WWII. (Why occupied France was included is something I never understood.)

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#58

Post by Qem »

g-b-r wrote: post #51
Sabinus wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Is it? Hamas and Hezbollah deliberately place their military infrastructure among civilians. I'm not eager to defend Hamas or Hezbollah, but for Gaza, is there a lot of free space? Using human shields anyhow, does NOT mean it's the other's fault if you bomb then. It's entirely your own decision, if you know that they're there. Do you really think there was no other way, to deal with the problem? Personally, for me…

> I don't think that's what people think about, when hearing about human hostages.

Indeed, they think more about something like this: https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/6/23/israeli...

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#59

Post by dragonwriter »

nimbius wrote: post #40
Qem wrote: post #7

At this point the country should be suspended from UN, like Apartheid SA was before, in 1974. See https://www.nytimes.com/1974/11/13/archives/south-africa-is-...

In 1986, then-U.S. Sen. Joe Biden said, “Supporting Israel is the best $3 billion investment we make. Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interests in the region.” Israel is a satellite state of the US in all but name. You'd have a better shot at dissolving the UN entirely than suspending Israel. What ive always wondered is why the US hasn't put Israel…

> Israel is a satellite state of the US in all but name.

The US is more reflexively pro-Israel than Israel is pro-US in international policy, the opposite of what you’d expect if Israel was a US vassal.

> What ive always wondered is why the US hasn't put Israel on the security council

There are lots of reasons, but one that renders all the others secondary is that the US can’t add permanent Security Council members.

> considering it is a nuclear armed state.

India, Pakistan, North Korea, and, when it was a nuclear-armed state, South Africa also are (and were) not permanent UNSC members, a set whuch hasn't expanded, though two seats have switched hands, since the UN was founded.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#60

Post by Cyph0n »

orionsbelt wrote: post #45
Cyph0n wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger problem is that these lies spread “like wildfire” via Western media outlets - with zero fact checking or confirmation. These images were then used to justify the rampage in Gaza. As far as I am aware, not a single Western media rag has issued an apology for this. In many of our eyes, never again will they be able to claim credibility or professionalism in their reporting. In addition, Western rags took Isr…

[flagged]

But beheaded babies and babies in ovens portrays a different level of atrocities being committed. This kind of fictional atrocity dissemination is very similar to the approach used during the Gulf War[1].

More importantly, the point is that Western media outlets - who have always proclaimed to be arbiters of truth, objectivity & journalistic integrity - neither did the absolute basic fact checking required before publishing such information, nor apologized later for doing so once the dust settled.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

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