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Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

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Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#21

Post by Sam713 »

pimpampum wrote: post #8
Sabinus wrote: post #5

"Israel has also said that UN forces are being used as a human shield by Hizbollah fighters, which it is fighting near several Unifil posts along the border. It has demanded the UN evacuate its peacekeepers from southern Lebanon for their own safety. Unifil, and the 50 countries that contribute troops to its ranks, have unanimously refused." Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? Did they let Hezbollah fire rock…

Israel has lied repeatedly countless times, like the tunnels under hospitals that never show up, or when they say the didn't kill the journalists they did end up admitting to. Or the claims of rape and beheaded babies that were all fake. You can not take anything they say as serious.

Not disputing general truthfulness of Israeli government, but specifically as to the latter two examples you listed: A) There is no direct evidence that Israeli government publicly stated that babies were beheaded. That claim came from a single journalist, spread like wildfire on social media (as did tons of videos and footage of the attacks), and was exacerbated by a statement Biden made.

B) there is very credible evidence that rape did occur as part of the atrocities Hamas committed on Oct. 7th attack. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-sexual-violence-...

Just wanted to point that out, because regardless of the moral standing of either side, I think the facts do matter if there is ever going to be a resolution. Obviously the actions committed by Hamas do not absolve Israel from following ethical rules of war, and there are plenty of issues with how Israel is waging war in the current conflict as well; for example using machine learning algorithms to track targets with what appears to be a reckless disregard for non-combatants: https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#22

Post by Qem »

Sam713 wrote: post #21
pimpampum wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has lied repeatedly countless times, like the tunnels under hospitals that never show up, or when they say the didn't kill the journalists they did end up admitting to. Or the claims of rape and beheaded babies that were all fake. You can not take anything they say as serious.

Not disputing general truthfulness of Israeli government, but specifically as to the latter two examples you listed: A) There is no direct evidence that Israeli government publicly stated that babies were beheaded. That claim came from a single journalist, spread like wildfire on social media (as did tons of videos and footage of the attacks), and was exacerbated by a statement Biden made. B) there is very credible e…

https://www.oct7factcheck.com/index

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#23

Post by throw310822 »

libertine wrote: post #13
Qem wrote: post #7

At this point the country should be suspended from UN, like Apartheid SA was before, in 1974. See https://www.nytimes.com/1974/11/13/archives/south-africa-is-...

The UN is in need of serious reform. For example, it's hard to comprehend how a country like Russia is not suspended? A country which signed the Charter, and is member of the security council, is trying to annex a country of 40 million people, claiming they and their culture don't exist. They don't even hide the genocide intent, and yet Guterres is visiting the BRICS conference in Russia legitimizing the regime. Desp…

Whatever Russia is doing pales in comparison with what Israel has done for the past 70 years.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#24

Post by Teever »

throw310822 wrote: post #23
libertine wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN is in need of serious reform. For example, it's hard to comprehend how a country like Russia is not suspended? A country which signed the Charter, and is member of the security council, is trying to annex a country of 40 million people, claiming they and their culture don't exist. They don't even hide the genocide intent, and yet Guterres is visiting the BRICS conference in Russia legitimizing the regime. Desp…

Whatever Russia is doing pales in comparison with what Israel has done for the past 70 years.

And if you compare what Russia has done in the same time frame?

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#25

Post by throw310822 »

Teever wrote: post #24
throw310822 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever Russia is doing pales in comparison with what Israel has done for the past 70 years.

And if you compare what Russia has done in the same time frame?

Oh well. We certainly didn't help it doing it or gave it diplomatic support, in any case.

Besides, ethnic cleansing and genocide are their own special kind of evil- I'm not sure Russia is guilty also of that.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#26

Post by aaomidi »

Teever wrote: post #24
throw310822 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever Russia is doing pales in comparison with what Israel has done for the past 70 years.

And if you compare what Russia has done in the same time frame?

Israel is has killed more innocent civilians in a year than the entire Russia Ukraine war fwiw

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#27

Post by tdeck »

pimpampum wrote: post #8
Sabinus wrote: post #5

"Israel has also said that UN forces are being used as a human shield by Hizbollah fighters, which it is fighting near several Unifil posts along the border. It has demanded the UN evacuate its peacekeepers from southern Lebanon for their own safety. Unifil, and the 50 countries that contribute troops to its ranks, have unanimously refused." Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? Did they let Hezbollah fire rock…

Israel has lied repeatedly countless times, like the tunnels under hospitals that never show up, or when they say the didn't kill the journalists they did end up admitting to. Or the claims of rape and beheaded babies that were all fake. You can not take anything they say as serious.

Don't forget that it's been extensively documented that Israel uses human shields:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-human...

https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields

Even the NYT took time away from repeating Israel's lies to report on it! https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/14/world/middleeast/israel-g...

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#28

Post by zajio1am »

dragonwriter wrote: post #16
NomDePlum wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely no evidence of UN forces being used as human shields. There's clear evidence, including that cited in the article, of the situation being very different from the claims/report of the IDF. The most credible reason for Israel wanting Unfil to vacate is less impartial observers.

The most credible reason for Israel to want UNIFIL to vacate is that UNIFIL’s mission is to help keep unauthorized military forces out of South Lebanon, and Israel’s invasion force is decidedly unauthorized.

Well, UNIFIL for the last twenty years pretty much ignored the other unauthorized military force in southern Lebanon, Hezbollah, so why they should care about IDF?

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#29

Post by tyleo »

sterlind wrote: post #12
Sabinus wrote: post #5

"Israel has also said that UN forces are being used as a human shield by Hizbollah fighters, which it is fighting near several Unifil posts along the border. It has demanded the UN evacuate its peacekeepers from southern Lebanon for their own safety. Unifil, and the 50 countries that contribute troops to its ranks, have unanimously refused." Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? Did they let Hezbollah fire rock…

Unifil has been there since the '70s, apparently. Their role was to monitor Israel's withdrawal and to assist the Lebanese government, to patrol the Blue Line and various humanitarian tasks. They're not a counterinsurgency force or an occupying army - as I understand it, they're a tripwire for treaty enforcement. Also, you don't get to shoot through human shields. It's still immoral to kill noncombatants, just as it'…

“You don’t get to shoot through human shields.” I don’t have a POV w.r.t. this conflict, but I’d like to understand what you mean by this statement generally. In the extreme it seems to imply, “if you have a human shield you are invincible.”

It’s a messed-up calculus to have to make but I feel like there must be some middle ground.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#30

Post by tguvot »

aaomidi wrote: post #26
Teever wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you compare what Russia has done in the same time frame?

Israel is has killed more innocent civilians in a year than the entire Russia Ukraine war fwiw

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