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Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#61

Post by rootusrootus »

xyst wrote: post #48
mensetmanusman wrote: post #2

“ The regulator also said Apple and Goldman misled many consumers into believing they would automatically get interest-free monthly payments when buying Apple devices. Instead, those same customers were charged interest.” Interesting! Will they notify those charged interest?

Probably payment on GS backend was processed late even if customer initiated payment on the due date. So customer was charged interest. I was an early adopter of the AC during my Apple glazing days. Everybody has the same due date (end of month) and GS systems just could not handle the volume. I remember an auto payment taking a week to withdraw from my bank account and applied to account. I wasn’t charged interest a…

> an auto payment taking a week to withdraw from my bank account

As an aside, for anyone using an Apple Card today, a handy way around this is to not make payments via ACH. Use your debit card with Apple Pay to pull money instantly into Apple Cash, then use that to instantly pay your credit card bill. An extra step, sure, but it's instant.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#62

Post by rootusrootus »

ezfe wrote: post #24
mensetmanusman wrote: post #2

“ The regulator also said Apple and Goldman misled many consumers into believing they would automatically get interest-free monthly payments when buying Apple devices. Instead, those same customers were charged interest.” Interesting! Will they notify those charged interest?

I'm curious what the issue is, since most Apple Devices DO have interest free payments for 12 months

IIRC, the installment each month hits your card like any other charge. So maybe if you let it become part of your revolving balance at that point, you'll pay interest.

It's been a while since I bought an Apple device that way, but I do think that's how it showed up. I always pay my card off each month so I never got to find out if the installment would be subject to interest if I didn't immediately pay it.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#63

Post by RobRivera »

xyst wrote: post #50
xp84 wrote: post #18

The article says they're banned from launching any more credit cards unless they can 'demonstrate they are going to follow the law' (whatever that means). This is really funny, because Goldman has been very public about how much they hate the Apple Card deal, and they have been and still are looking to unwind the deal or sell the portfolio, so something tells me this experiment in retail consumer finance is not somet…

Goldman has been winding down consumer bank operations for awhile. Checking/savings account division (Marcus?) was sold off or dissolved

They sold off Marcus? Lul.

They were begging for (below market wage) devs to pack those seats pre2020

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#64

Post by dylan604 »

kgrin wrote: post #58
dylan604 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite generous. I'd assume that of the $19.8 million going back to customers would see at least 60% used as legal fees before seeing distribution resulting in a similar payout to most class action suits

That's one advantage of this being a CFPB action and not the result of a class-action suit.

Isn't CFPB one of the agencies on the chopping block of Project2025?

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#65

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

rootusrootus wrote: post #62
ezfe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what the issue is, since most Apple Devices DO have interest free payments for 12 months

IIRC, the installment each month hits your card like any other charge. So maybe if you let it become part of your revolving balance at that point, you'll pay interest. It's been a while since I bought an Apple device that way, but I do think that's how it showed up. I always pay my card off each month so I never got to find out if the installment would be subject to interest if I didn't immediately pay it.

> So maybe if you let it become part of your revolving balance at that point, you'll pay interest.

Another interpretation is that the credit card balance is charged interest but the monthly payments, which are paid using the card, do not have interest applied. Which sounds accurate and not necessarily misleading, though there's an argument to be made given they market the card so heavily. I think the confusion stems from the situation of making monthly payments with a credit line that also expects monthly payments.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#66

Post by _mlbt »

starttoaster wrote: post #51
_mlbt wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Apple Card gives me an entire month to pay off the balance, and I am actively encouraged to keep paying it off throughout the month. The cash back rewards are simple and quickly paid out. There are no late fees. The UI for the software side of it is exceptional. It is by far my favorite credit card.

The cash back rewards is not, as far as I know, actually all that good in comparison to its competitors like American Express. Giving a month to pay off a balance I believe is referred to as a "grace period" which is pretty common place in credit cards. A month is nice, but I believe most cards are usually around 4 weeks. But the UI for the card's online banking is fairly attractive, especially if you're already an i…

> The cash back rewards is not, as far as I know, actually all that good in comparison to its competitors like American Express.

There are definitely cards with better rewards, but few with such a straightforward and simple cash back program. Also, the rewards are not bad by any means. I also like the tight integration with the high yield savings account, which again is not the best rate possible, but makes up for it with the UI of its software and overall simplicity and ease of use.

> Giving a month to pay off a balance I believe is referred to as a "grace period" which is pretty common place in credit cards. A month is nice, but I believe most cards are usually around 4 weeks.

I'm talking about the actual due date, not the grace period which is a different thing entirely. You have until the last day of the following month to pay off the balance to avoid incurring interest, which is different than any other credit card I've ever used. Usually the due dates are a specific day of the month which often changes every month.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#67

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

jrflowers wrote: post #40
bostik wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason I think it will have been even more mundane. It is quite a long time ago, but Matt Levine wrote at the time that GS was (for whatever reason) desperate to get into consumer finance. They saw the market as an open opportunity, and paired up with Apple to get a foothold reaching well beyond their Marcus brand. [Still paraphrasing Levine.] As one would expect, that didn't go well. Goldman Sachs as a comp…

Why would you decaffeinate strawberry juice

It's a bit ambiguous but I think they may have been suggesting that the carton is decaffeinated.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#68

Post by WillPostForFood »

toolz wrote: post #42
downrightmike wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goldman thought they were going to be able to fleece Apple's customers, but they can't. Good job Apple!

what am I missing? The article talks about apple failing to send consumer disputes, how is that on GS?

More details in the press release. The complaint against Apple is the the UI led some people to think they had competed a dispute, when there was an additional step. The complaint against Goldman is that their backend systems were broken and they failed to act on the disputes.

Failing to process or share consumer disputes: Apple Card users were directed to dispute transactions through a “Report an Issue” feature in the Wallet app. For some disputes, Apple sent consumers a separate link in the Messages app asking for more information. Apple failed to send these disputes to Goldman Sachs if the second form was incomplete. Even after Goldman Sachs alerted Apple to this issue, the problem persisted. As a result, neither Apple nor Goldman Sachs investigated tens of thousands of such disputes and cardholders were unfairly held responsible for disputed transactions.

Failing to investigate cardholder disputes: For the disputes that Apple did send to Goldman Sachs, the bank failed to consistently send acknowledgment notices within 30 days, conduct reasonable investigations, or send resolution letters explaining the determinations of its investigations within 90 days. These failures led to Goldman Sachs illegally placing damaging information on consumers’ credit reports and holding cardholders responsible for potentially fraudulent or unauthorized purchases.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#69

Post by _mlbt »

hirvi74 wrote: post #26
mensetmanusman wrote: post #2

“ The regulator also said Apple and Goldman misled many consumers into believing they would automatically get interest-free monthly payments when buying Apple devices. Instead, those same customers were charged interest.” Interesting! Will they notify those charged interest?

I've used the service plenty of times now, and was never charged interest. I wonder what situations lead this to happen? I know one has to select the payment option when purchasing through Apple and not all items are eligible. Maybe people just assumed the payment plans would be automatically and didn't require selecting the option during checkout?

I believe if you fail to make the entire monthly payment by the end of the month you will be charged interest.

Re: Goldman and Apple 'illegally sidestepped' obligations to credit-card customers

#70

Post by tiltowait »

_mlbt wrote: post #31
talldayo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "good job Apple" in the context of payment processing deals is like cheering on a slightly more buff gladiator bashing in the face of his opponent. Both of them intend to fleece the users, they just disagree over who gets priority access. I'm not saying you can't have a favorite gladiator, I'm saying you can't pretend this isn't pugilism.

My Apple Card gives me an entire month to pay off the balance, and I am actively encouraged to keep paying it off throughout the month. The cash back rewards are simple and quickly paid out. There are no late fees. The UI for the software side of it is exceptional. It is by far my favorite credit card.

The app is such a killer feature for me that I’m more than willing to accept somewhat lower rewards compared to other cards.
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