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What makes a person seem wise?

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Re: What makes a person seem wise?

#51

Post by DiscourseFan »

racl101 wrote: post #23
DiscourseFan wrote: post #13

I suppose often its better to have conviction than wisdom, since sometimes you need to make a leap into the abyss.

There's value in following people with strong conviction who are decisive in certain situations. Like a battlefield, for example. On the other hand, delusional cult leaders also have strong conviction but it doesn't pay to drink their kool aid.

One must make a choice regardless. Getting a job and working for a corporation your whole life is not very different from following a cult leader insofar as it becomes the limit of your social imagination (although a good wage is more compelling). You have to make these gambles some times in your life.

Re: What makes a person seem wise?

#52

Post by atomicnature »

wenc wrote: post #36

It sounds like the topic is perceived wisdom (“what makes a person seem wise?”) rather than actual (practical) wisdom which is good use of knowledge and experience to make good decisions. I say this because I know folks who seem wise (perceived as high IQ and EQ) but lack judgment, because they are working off models of the world that does not comport with reality, so their utterings do not work in real life. Wisdom…

Excellent point. That's why the truly wise people use "results" in terms of judging wisdom. If your thought is coherent, when you put it to practice - it works. And if it works - the desired result is produced. Doesn't mean all thoughts that lead to practical desirable results are borne of wisdom, but empirical success is a necessary, but not sufficient condition.

Re: What makes a person seem wise?

#53

Post by DiscourseFan »

whoChumpedwho wrote: post #30
DiscourseFan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wisdom here is not something that is specifically outlined in discourse but pointed towards through a constellation of qualities observed by a random set of individuals

a feature of ignorance compounded by exclusive english/outglish. other languages counter insincerity with high effectiveness.

What is insincere about claiming that Wisdom cannot be described succinctly?

Re: What makes a person seem wise?

#54

Post by wenc »

atomicnature wrote: post #52
wenc wrote: post #36

It sounds like the topic is perceived wisdom (“what makes a person seem wise?”) rather than actual (practical) wisdom which is good use of knowledge and experience to make good decisions. I say this because I know folks who seem wise (perceived as high IQ and EQ) but lack judgment, because they are working off models of the world that does not comport with reality, so their utterings do not work in real life. Wisdom…

Excellent point. That's why the truly wise people use "results" in terms of judging wisdom. If your thought is coherent, when you put it to practice - it works. And if it works - the desired result is produced. Doesn't mean all thoughts that lead to practical desirable results are borne of wisdom, but empirical success is a necessary, but not sufficient condition.

Right. I read a ton of business books in my day, many of them with great ideas, but when I came across Andy Grove’s High Output Management, it just hit different. Andy Grove being former CEO of Intel spoke from experience actually doing hard things, whereas many of the other books were written by people who were peddling wisdom to sell books. Not bad wisdom, just untested and not generalizable.

Working Backwards is another book full of practical wisdom that has actually been battle tested.

Re: What makes a person seem wise?

#55

Post by adamc »

asoneth wrote: post #42
adamc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that. It's a good metaphor. But I think you can be wise without being clever (having a high IQ). In my mind, people mostly ask different kinds of questions when they are looking for wisdom. They want to know how to make their marriage work, or how to have a happy life, not the most efficient way to sort a list. And those questions tend to benefit from both a greater EQ, and extensive life experience. Of course…

> I think you can be wise without being clever (having a high IQ). I think it depends on how you define "clever". Does knowledge of things like how to sort a list correlate with cleverness? I know wise people who don't have formal education, but I'd still consider them exceedingly clever. I built a wood shed many years ago. I looked up the recommended roof slope and used trigonometry to calculate the angles of my cut…

I think of cleverness as a measure of how quickly or effectively you can solve a new-to-you problem. Which I think is utterly different from wisdom, which is mostly about reflecting and drawing inferences from experiences.

Re: What makes a person seem wise?

#56

Post by dexterdog »

lukan wrote: post #10
caseyy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some examples?

That could evolve into a political flamewar very fast ..

I don't think so. The political arena is dominated by those of low intelligence. Sure, they're smarter than the average person, but that's not saying much. The main skill in succeeding in the space is to be able to talk for a medium amount of time without falling into any traps. Furthering conversation on the topic at hand is never pursued.

Re: What makes a person seem wise?

#57

Post by atomicnature »

wenc wrote: post #54
atomicnature wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent point. That's why the truly wise people use "results" in terms of judging wisdom. If your thought is coherent, when you put it to practice - it works. And if it works - the desired result is produced. Doesn't mean all thoughts that lead to practical desirable results are borne of wisdom, but empirical success is a necessary, but not sufficient condition.

Right. I read a ton of business books in my day, many of them with great ideas, but when I came across Andy Grove’s High Output Management, it just hit different. Andy Grove being former CEO of Intel spoke from experience actually doing hard things, whereas many of the other books were written by people who were peddling wisdom to sell books. Not bad wisdom, just untested and not generalizable. Working Backwards is a…

I've read Grove's work, and I agree with the "output" aspect being important. But I wouldn't consider "output" the only thing that connects to wisdom. I've heard of people I consider to be "wise" criticizing many of Andy's approach as well (I tend to agree). For me - say someone like Lee Kuan Yew - was quite a wise and practical man. Highly developed intellectually, socially, both pragmatic and respecting of scholars, etc. Wisdom can be considered a cluster of qualities if you will, of which "ability to get results" is a big factor.

Re: What makes a person seem wise?

#58

Post by LinuxAmbulance »

Seem wise? Knowing the most useful answer to a given question someone has, being right 95% of the time or more, not making statements on subjects one has no understanding of.

A great story I once heard was someone asking a wise man how they became so wise, and they answered "If someone asked me what color my socks were, I'd look at my socks before answering." E.g., taking more than the normal amount of care to give a correct answer.

Actually being wise? Much harder to tell from the outside.

Re: What makes a person seem wise?

#60

Post by lukan »

dexterdog wrote: post #56
lukan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could evolve into a political flamewar very fast ..

I don't think so. The political arena is dominated by those of low intelligence. Sure, they're smarter than the average person, but that's not saying much. The main skill in succeeding in the space is to be able to talk for a medium amount of time without falling into any traps. Furthering conversation on the topic at hand is never pursued.

"The main skill in succeeding in the space is to be able to talk for a medium amount of time without falling into any traps. "

And all the intrigues and backstabbing behind the scenes?

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