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Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

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Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#111

Post by jandrese »

nosianu wrote: post #65
jandrese wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I'd say the QoL for the ultra-rich has been improved that much. They have a lot more money, but end up spending it mostly on updated versions of the same stuff rich people have always spent money on. There is a serious diminishing returns on how much money can improve your Quality of Life. It can even become a burden as a level of extreme wealth can start to become its own obligation.

That's it's not about how much money they use for their lifestyles, it's about how much of the economy you control. The more, the more interesting projects you can do - see Elon Musk. Of course he could live just as well with a fraction of what he owns now, but his control over so much is what allows him to do "cool stuff". Being ultra-rich is more about controlling society's destiny, not about how one lives. Whether…

Shame that "cool stuff" is almost always "buy media outlets to propagandize against taxes" and "buy politicians to lower my taxes". `

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#112

Post by listenallyall »

consteval wrote: post #107
listenallyall wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few people want to sit idle and just do nothing. We have, in fact, automated almost everything. Dishwashers, laundry machines, Amazon delivering to your door. People have a natural instinct to fill in the gaps and so they take on more activities, responsibilities, and work.

The lie of our society is that the alternative to work is to "sit idle". That's more time with your family, your friends, your loved ones. More time smiling, more time laughing, more time being creative. This is the "good" time - the part of life you actually care about. The parts of life you will remember when you're close to death. You won't remember meetings, or a commute, or even a project you did really good on…

Not a lie at all. Plenty of people remember, and are proud of, their professional achievements.

Time with friends and family is important, sure, but everyone reaches a point of diminsihing returns. There's a reason most parents eventually want their kids out of the house. Or why Thanksgiving is only once a year.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#113

Post by listenallyall »

znpy wrote: post #64
listenallyall wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few people want to sit idle and just do nothing. We have, in fact, automated almost everything. Dishwashers, laundry machines, Amazon delivering to your door. People have a natural instinct to fill in the gaps and so they take on more activities, responsibilities, and work.

> Amazon delivering to your door. Uhhh last time i checked amazon truck drivers were still humans, and drone delivery is still a catchy marketing stunt at least for now.

From the customer's point of view, yes, it's automated. The task of shopping is mostly eliminated. Instead of spending all afternoon at the mall, a customer can purchase everything they need in a few minutes without ever leaving the house.

Sorry you need things to be explained to you in such great detail.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#114

Post by [deleted] »

uhtred wrote: post #55
listenallyall wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few people want to sit idle and just do nothing. We have, in fact, automated almost everything. Dishwashers, laundry machines, Amazon delivering to your door. People have a natural instinct to fill in the gaps and so they take on more activities, responsibilities, and work.

If I didn't have to work I wouldn't sit idly and do nothing. I'd create things, have hobbies etc. Maybe do some volunteering.

[deleted]

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#116

Post by helij »

froddd wrote: post #33

I’ve worked a 4 day week for a few years now. Best decision I’ve had the chance to make. I feel more productive on those 4 days, and my time away from work is more fulfilled too. I always recommend it to people who may be lucky enough to afford and choose it.

Same here. Almost 4 years now. Feel good at work and what I accomplish. Got steadily promoted with significant pay rises. Fridays are amazing. Drop kids at school, do some errands and code a little and then pick up the kids and spend time with family.

My job nowadays is not programming but managerial. I'm lucky that a company offers a lot of flexibility, the main one being office not mandatory, so there are no issues when personal matter comes and you need to go out or something. Good companies like that are out there.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#118

Post by helij »

pmg101 wrote: post #69
stavros wrote: post #49

I work four eight-hour days (with a concomitant 20% pay cut), and I'm never going back. I did try a five-day year, after six or so years of a four-day week, but that just made me cement my decision to not work five days. A two-day weekend is too short, a five-day workweek is too long. 4/3 is the perfect split.

This is true in my opinion. But if you worked the fifth day and invested all your fifth-day earnings, you could retire/become financially independent a decade earlier. I'm not sure it's so clear cut which of these is the better option.

That fifth personal day can be quite lucrative with various one off projects. You can also be quite selective as you're covered financially and can choose those one off projects carefully to align with your values or whatever matters to you.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#119

Post by consteval »

listenallyall wrote: post #112
consteval wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lie of our society is that the alternative to work is to "sit idle". That's more time with your family, your friends, your loved ones. More time smiling, more time laughing, more time being creative. This is the "good" time - the part of life you actually care about. The parts of life you will remember when you're close to death. You won't remember meetings, or a commute, or even a project you did really good on…

Not a lie at all. Plenty of people remember, and are proud of, their professional achievements. Time with friends and family is important, sure, but everyone reaches a point of diminsihing returns. There's a reason most parents eventually want their kids out of the house. Or why Thanksgiving is only once a year.

Personally, I think being proud of your professional achievements, unless they're extraordinarily impressive, is pathetic. I can guarantee you, nobody else in your life shares that pride. Being proud for the money you earn is another thing all together, people do appreciate that.

> There's a reason most parents eventually want their kids out of the house. Or why Thanksgiving is only once a year.

Right, because people hate their lives and hate their families because they got married without putting much thought into it for financial incentives and then built a life with the intention of ignoring it as much as possible just to satisfy some perspective of white picket life and numbing heteronormativity.

I know many people - both men and women - who don't even like their partners. Forget about love. And they still committed to marrying them and settling down and then they like to work. Not because the work is good, but because it means they get away from their family.

Also, most adults eventually have no friends because nobody likes them, and they waste all their time on work. And, somehow, we're just supposed to be okay with the idea that nobody likes you and nobody is your friend. I mean, if you wanted to, could you even make a friend in the next year? For most, the answer is no.

We, as a whole, have destroyed any sense of community for the promise of a nuclear family and stable job. The end result is people being sad enough to pat themselves on the back for sending an email and hiding in a "man cave" to avoid the reality of having to make small talk with the person closest to them in their life.

Sorry, maybe this is harsh, but it's what I've observed. I mean just ask an older person what the best time of their life was. Most of the time they say college or high school. Sure, being young has something to do with it, but that's not it. Having friends, laughing a lot, doing activities, having a community... these are the parts that make life worth living. My father could recount countless stories from when he was in college, decades and decades ago. He couldn't tell you what the name of the dude hired 2 years ago at work.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#120

Post by nntwozz »

JackSlateur wrote: post #104
tmn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. In my observation people have a natural tendency to float towards a self determined 'busy'. Which is generally not that busy. As in there is a plenty of time to watch shows, indulge in frivolous pet household projects, go to wine tastings, etc. Note that some of these indulgences are what leads to the self determined 'busy'. But the point is they are discretionary.

Yes Pascal, in his "Pensées" book, wrote about this: humans keep getting busy, because otherwise they would understand how pointless their existence and suffering and reality is. And so, in order to avoid the inner void that lurk behind everyone's mind, we run, we act, we play and we do thing, because even the useless is better than the nothing.

Is there a direct quote of this? I find it amazing.
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