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Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

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Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#51

Post by allendoerfer »

supportengineer wrote: post #43
marssaxman wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to step away for a couple of minutes to start a load of laundry, empty the dishwasher, carry out the trash, or perform some other bit of household maintenance is a seriously underrated benefit of working from home! Baking bread, for example, is an hours-long process consisting of quick tasks separated by long waits; I used to bake several times a week, last time I was working from home, but I haven't done…

I am working from home and this reminded me to check the laundry

Do not disturb my deep work phases with your HN comments!

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#53

Post by jsvlrtmred »

nntwozz wrote: post #23

Aldous Huxley imagined in the '20s we would automate most things and work less in the future. Today we work more than ever together with increased automation, and women work as well instad of being home to take care of the household. On paper it looks like progress, but I'm not so sure about the quality of life.

https://ourworldindata.org/working-more-than-ever

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#54

Post by jandrese »

0xcafefood wrote: post #38
nntwozz wrote: post #23

Aldous Huxley imagined in the '20s we would automate most things and work less in the future. Today we work more than ever together with increased automation, and women work as well instad of being home to take care of the household. On paper it looks like progress, but I'm not so sure about the quality of life.

Maybe all the gains went to the top? Quality of life for the ultra-high net worth set has never been better.

I'm not sure I'd say the QoL for the ultra-rich has been improved that much. They have a lot more money, but end up spending it mostly on updated versions of the same stuff rich people have always spent money on. There is a serious diminishing returns on how much money can improve your Quality of Life. It can even become a burden as a level of extreme wealth can start to become its own obligation.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#55

Post by uhtred »

listenallyall wrote: post #48
0xcafefood wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe all the gains went to the top? Quality of life for the ultra-high net worth set has never been better.

Few people want to sit idle and just do nothing. We have, in fact, automated almost everything. Dishwashers, laundry machines, Amazon delivering to your door. People have a natural instinct to fill in the gaps and so they take on more activities, responsibilities, and work.

If I didn't have to work I wouldn't sit idly and do nothing. I'd create things, have hobbies etc. Maybe do some volunteering.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#57

Post by tmn »

listenallyall wrote: post #48
0xcafefood wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe all the gains went to the top? Quality of life for the ultra-high net worth set has never been better.

Few people want to sit idle and just do nothing. We have, in fact, automated almost everything. Dishwashers, laundry machines, Amazon delivering to your door. People have a natural instinct to fill in the gaps and so they take on more activities, responsibilities, and work.

Agree. In my observation people have a natural tendency to float towards a self determined 'busy'. Which is generally not that busy. As in there is a plenty of time to watch shows, indulge in frivolous pet household projects, go to wine tastings, etc. Note that some of these indulgences are what leads to the self determined 'busy'. But the point is they are discretionary.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#58

Post by tomohelix »

0xcafefood wrote: post #34
tomohelix wrote: post #27

I know this is HN and most people here heavily support WFH. But as this article shows, people will support whatever benefits they can get, even if it is very likely come at the cost of productivity. With WFH, it is a mixed bag of whether that would affect productivity or not but from a risk averse management perspective, it is understandable that they don't want to risk it and go back to the traditional mode. In my (…

You define "fair" as "whatever the market for a particular sort of job will support," but then throw in a comparison to other, very different lines of work and note some differences. What's the connection?

The comparisons are to show how other professions have a common level of benefit. On the overall market, RTO is not exceptional and it is understandable why employers for a particular field would be hesitant to grant WFH as an added benefit on top of already provided ones. As it turns out, even for the software field, this is not something easily granted.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#59

Post by tomohelix »

eweise wrote: post #37
tomohelix wrote: post #27

I know this is HN and most people here heavily support WFH. But as this article shows, people will support whatever benefits they can get, even if it is very likely come at the cost of productivity. With WFH, it is a mixed bag of whether that would affect productivity or not but from a risk averse management perspective, it is understandable that they don't want to risk it and go back to the traditional mode. In my (…

I don't see what fairness has to do with WFH. Its in the company's best interest to maximize employee productivity. If an employee has to travel three hours per day to sit on zoom meetings, they might not be motivated to perform as well as they would for a company that treats them better.

I guess by using the word "fair" I may have caused the discussion to focus on the wrong idea.

It is about what is acceptable to both the employer and the employee. The employee would like the freedom to WFH but the employer consider it a benefit that come at their cost and thus do not want to grant it. As shown by other professions, the idea of WFH is entirely new and rarely if ever granted or expected to most professionals. Software devs are in a unique position to demand and potentially getting it does not make it any less exceptional and a huge ask for the other side of the negotiation.

Whether it is really good or bad is not the point I am making.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#60

Post by myprotegeai »

nntwozz wrote: post #23

Aldous Huxley imagined in the '20s we would automate most things and work less in the future. Today we work more than ever together with increased automation, and women work as well instad of being home to take care of the household. On paper it looks like progress, but I'm not so sure about the quality of life.

It's not progress. Every organization has "load bearing" employees that do the brunt of the real work, and everyone else just creates a cloud of confusion about what they actually do and why it's important. Most people are doing fake work. But unfortunately "fake work" jobs are the only way to fight back about the ever-optimizing, ever-extracting process of the free market. My job is needed because fuck you, I'm not going to be homeless. It's all a big game.

And with women, employers still haven't figured out how to afford women time for traditional responsibilities, like caring for their children, while still providing them with "equitable" workplace opportunities, while not being unfair to everyone else. Likely because it's just not possible. If I don't have kids and grind harder than women who take time to raise kids, why should we have equal opportunities? Makes you wonder if traditional gender roles were onto something. Yes we can do the same things, but no it is not wise to do so on a societal level.

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