Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion" • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#91

Post by dkersten » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 8:40 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #13

I am reminded of an old Dilbert cartoon where they bring in a usability expert to help them write an app. After suggesting that the computer shock the user when they do the wrong thing, he quips, "I found this job to be a lot easier once I realized I hated people" Seriously, Facebook. Do one thing and do it well. Enough of this conquer-the-universe bullshit. I'm already at the point where I want to jump ship; I just…

I'm already at the point where I want to jump ship; I just can't figure out how to do it without losing contact with my friends.

I'm in the exact same boat, but I decided that the risk of losing contact with a few people I don't talk to often is worth it at this point. I've spent the last few days making sure everyone has my email address, phone number and google+ and will be deleting my account in about a weeks time.

There are many reasons why I am deleting my account, this issue (and their response to it) are just the latest problems that finally pushed me over the edge.

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#92

Post by Jach » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 8:45 PM UTC

gnaritas wrote: post #86

brownbat wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how these semantic distinctions affect the argument. Replace the "friends" in his original post with "acquaintances," and his point stands. Facebook is useful as a long term rolodex.

> Replace the "friends" in his original post with "acquaintances," and his point stands. That's changing the argument, those words mean totally different things. My point is, Facebook makes keeping in touch with acquaintances easy, but isn't necessary to keep in touch with actual friends. Friends are people you see outside of Facebook.

For less introverted people, "friend" and "acquaintance" are more-or-less synonymous. See why Facebook chose the word "friend" now? (I agree with your assessment of course, I consider them very different. My best friend doesn't even have Facebook, I only succumbed a few months ago...)

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#93

Post by spaghetti » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 8:46 PM UTC

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #31

Facebook seems to be losing sight of what people want to use them for: snooping on their friends. ;) I wonder what the MVP of a Facebook de-throner would be. Google+ showed pretty well it wasn't about fighting them head-on. Instagram was making pretty good progress in an oblique fashion. What other directions could you come at this problem from?

IMO the competing MVP is Twitter stripped down as much as possible. When I consume my Twitter feed about 50% of all Tweets have a photos or video. So the consumption process is scroll, read just a bit, watch or view something and repeat. For me that pattern is a pleasant experience. Stuff can be removed. The MySpace like backgrounds to start. Thinking big: remove or tone down mentions and hash tags since IMO they're visually distracting. Point is to make a list-based product where people consume photos and videos from a lightly filtered group of peers as easily as possible.

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#94

Post by mongol » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 8:47 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #70

betterth wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was this simple than Facebook would never have caught on in the first place. The answer isn't "rollback" because clearly there is some value here. The answer is finding out how to maximize that value to our lives, not maximize the payout for investors.

The main thing Facebook provides that isn't addressable with the systems we'd be left with in a "rollback" is a universal way to stay linked to other people that provides both people with control over whether that link exists or not. Everything else is just features glommed on top of that basic feature. AFAICT there are only two ways to provide that basic feature: (!) A centralized service like Facebook that manages…

Number 2 is very interesting. I don't know either how it would work, but Bitcoin proves that intelligent stuff in this direction can be done and have some success

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#95

Post by wahsd » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 8:59 PM UTC

seiji wrote: post #22

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #13

I am reminded of an old Dilbert cartoon where they bring in a usability expert to help them write an app. After suggesting that the computer shock the user when they do the wrong thing, he quips, "I found this job to be a lot easier once I realized I hated people" Seriously, Facebook. Do one thing and do it well. Enough of this conquer-the-universe bullshit. I'm already at the point where I want to jump ship; I just…

Enough of this conquer-the-universe bullshit. Their end goal is to be the entire Internet in a curated show-you-only-what-you-agree-with-so-you-click-on-more-things model. They won't stop or slow down until something else makes them irrelevant.

Um, when people start waking up they will realize that it isn't, hasn't ever, and will never work. Facebook only functions on one core input; your demographic info. I would bet significant amounts of money that Facebook has permanently backed up everyone's demographic info for all eternity. It is the vulnerable point in the Facebook deathstar. No one already looks at or intentionally clicks on any adds on Facebook, imagine how difficult it would be to sell marketers that facebook flavored bull if the user demographics were junk info.

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#96

Post by joeblubaugh » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 9:01 PM UTC

gnaritas wrote: post #57

k-mcgrady wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "you don't need an application to managed personal relationships" You do when you're keeping in touch with friends you've made throughout your life and not just your current ones. That's the thing Facebook makes easy. Also email and writing letters don't really work. If I sent a letter to a friend I seriously doubt they would bother responding, and most people I know personally don't use email. They use Facebook.…

> You do when you're keeping in touch with friends you've made throughout your life and not just your current ones. Your friends are the current ones. Those other people aren't friends anymore, they're acquaintances, people you used to know but don't see anymore. Friend isn't a permanent status, it's the people you hang out with and see on a regular basis. If your only contact with a person is through facebook, they…

You know what? You don't get to decide who people's friends are. 30 years ago people had all kinds of friends they only got to communicate with on the phone and through letters. Non-face-to-face friendships (and romantic relationships) have existed since we had semi-reliable postal services. People happen to find things like Twitter & Facebook really helpful in this regard.

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#97

Post by wahsd » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 9:04 PM UTC

I hope some of the open source projects will be successful at building a self-owned social network. In all reality, you don't need massive server farms for facebook, what you do need them for is to crunch your specific profile and determine how best you can be cultivated for the most juicy marketing fruit. The relationship between user and facebook is about as real as the love of a slave driver for his slaves.

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#98

Post by jessedhillon » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 9:11 PM UTC

gnaritas wrote: post #57

k-mcgrady wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "you don't need an application to managed personal relationships" You do when you're keeping in touch with friends you've made throughout your life and not just your current ones. That's the thing Facebook makes easy. Also email and writing letters don't really work. If I sent a letter to a friend I seriously doubt they would bother responding, and most people I know personally don't use email. They use Facebook.…

> You do when you're keeping in touch with friends you've made throughout your life and not just your current ones. Your friends are the current ones. Those other people aren't friends anymore, they're acquaintances, people you used to know but don't see anymore. Friend isn't a permanent status, it's the people you hang out with and see on a regular basis. If your only contact with a person is through facebook, they…

And who says nerds don't understand other people?

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#99

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 9:25 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #78

bmj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, but there's another issue here: some of your friends may not actually respond to email messages. Personally, I'm a fan of email and letter writing (and not a fan of the phone), but I've fallen out of touch with several friends because if you don't contact them via Facebook or Twitter (I do neither), you won't hear back from them.

You're missing the point -- those people aren't your friends anyway. The fact that you can "like" a picture of someone's kid or say happy birthday on their Wall doesn't change that fact. Facebook can be a great tool for sharing photos and other things with your friends. But most of what is actually happening on Facebook is voyeurism -- you get to stalk people whom you sort of know.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Blames Email Problems On User "Confusion"

#100

Post by theorique » Mon, Jul 02, 2012, 9:30 PM UTC

wahnfrieden wrote: post #74

theorique wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

consuming status updates containing skewed and filtered representations of someone's life. I much prefer skewed and filtered representations of my friends. It's much easier to interact with a caricatured, mean-field average of my 900 or so Facebook friends (aka "the audience") than to do it (shudder) one-on-one.

Is it not preferable to have more meaningful, personal interactions with a smaller group of people?

Yes, I was attempting (perhaps unsuccessfully) to be ironic.