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Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

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Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#41

Post by KerryJones »

tomohelix wrote: post #27

I know this is HN and most people here heavily support WFH. But as this article shows, people will support whatever benefits they can get, even if it is very likely come at the cost of productivity. With WFH, it is a mixed bag of whether that would affect productivity or not but from a risk averse management perspective, it is understandable that they don't want to risk it and go back to the traditional mode. In my (…

It seems like you're comparing jobs to other jobs. If you reverse your logic, "Software jobs should have to go to the workplace, not because they need to, are more productive, but just so that other people feel like it's fair."

You stated correctly when you said "most jobs do not have the luxury", and some people have specifically chosen these jobs for this luxury.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#42

Post by oldpersonintx »

tomohelix wrote: post #27

I know this is HN and most people here heavily support WFH. But as this article shows, people will support whatever benefits they can get, even if it is very likely come at the cost of productivity. With WFH, it is a mixed bag of whether that would affect productivity or not but from a risk averse management perspective, it is understandable that they don't want to risk it and go back to the traditional mode. In my (…

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Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#43

Post by supportengineer »

marssaxman wrote: post #31
alexjplant wrote: post #15

Parts of US Department of Defense and their contractors do what they refer to as Compressed Work Schedule (CWS) wherein employees work 9-hour days and get every other Friday off. Some people opt to split their off day and make every Friday a half-day so that they can be on the links or at the riverside bar and grill by lunchtime. While in college I worked 10 hours a day Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday. Saturd…

Being able to step away for a couple of minutes to start a load of laundry, empty the dishwasher, carry out the trash, or perform some other bit of household maintenance is a seriously underrated benefit of working from home! Baking bread, for example, is an hours-long process consisting of quick tasks separated by long waits; I used to bake several times a week, last time I was working from home, but I haven't done…

I am working from home and this reminded me to check the laundry

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#44

Post by StyloBill »

tomohelix wrote: post #27

I know this is HN and most people here heavily support WFH. But as this article shows, people will support whatever benefits they can get, even if it is very likely come at the cost of productivity. With WFH, it is a mixed bag of whether that would affect productivity or not but from a risk averse management perspective, it is understandable that they don't want to risk it and go back to the traditional mode. In my (…

Fairness related to other professions seems to be a very odd metric. I fail to see why software engineers should feel guilty about WFH because others can't.

I mean I'd love to be able to enjoy a nice sky or a beautiful view of the sea while I'm working but alas, my work tool is neither a plane nor a boat.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#45

Post by rockyj »

tomohelix wrote: post #27

I know this is HN and most people here heavily support WFH. But as this article shows, people will support whatever benefits they can get, even if it is very likely come at the cost of productivity. With WFH, it is a mixed bag of whether that would affect productivity or not but from a risk averse management perspective, it is understandable that they don't want to risk it and go back to the traditional mode. In my (…

One could also say that your opinion is very American centric. Only US devs get "heavily" or extra compensated, the salaries in Europe or India are comparable with other professionals, specially when you are getting started. What's more, if you stay in the IC role the salary will hit a ceiling after some years and management salaries are again comparable with other positions.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#46

Post by hotspot_one »

braza wrote: post #16

One of the aspects that has never been discussed in those studies is the competitor's offset, which wouldn't adopt the 4-day work week. Local companies in Germany have a very defensive business due to the nature of the market (not so internationalized, highly consolidated, a lot of small businesses that no big corporation would try to enter, and low competition in mid-sized businesses due to bureaucracy). For local S…

Friend of mine worked for BMW in Germany. The 35 hour work week was strictly enforced.

It's the law, it's the system, so of course that is what they are going to do.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#47

Post by t-writescode »

yarg wrote: post #18
dylanz wrote: post #6

Once You Try a Three-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

This sort of snarky response fails to consider the actual benefits - for both the employer and the employee. Often by the end of the week, people in complex positions are well past the point of diminishing returns - pushing them harder may work in the short-term, but it's a recipe for burnout. It's better to have someone operating closer to their peek performance for longer - even if you sacrifice a day overall.

As I've been working for myself, this is exactly what I've noticed. The exhaustion and stress of pushing myself "another day" for "just another feature" is absolutely not worth the burnout that comes immediately after.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#48

Post by listenallyall »

0xcafefood wrote: post #38
nntwozz wrote: post #23

Aldous Huxley imagined in the '20s we would automate most things and work less in the future. Today we work more than ever together with increased automation, and women work as well instad of being home to take care of the household. On paper it looks like progress, but I'm not so sure about the quality of life.

Maybe all the gains went to the top? Quality of life for the ultra-high net worth set has never been better.

Few people want to sit idle and just do nothing. We have, in fact, automated almost everything. Dishwashers, laundry machines, Amazon delivering to your door. People have a natural instinct to fill in the gaps and so they take on more activities, responsibilities, and work.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#49

Post by stavros »

I work four eight-hour days (with a concomitant 20% pay cut), and I'm never going back. I did try a five-day year, after six or so years of a four-day week, but that just made me cement my decision to not work five days.

A two-day weekend is too short, a five-day workweek is too long. 4/3 is the perfect split.

Re: Once You Try a Four-Day Workweek, It's Hard to Go Back

#50

Post by t-writescode »

015a wrote: post #32
alexjplant wrote: post #15

Parts of US Department of Defense and their contractors do what they refer to as Compressed Work Schedule (CWS) wherein employees work 9-hour days and get every other Friday off. Some people opt to split their off day and make every Friday a half-day so that they can be on the links or at the riverside bar and grill by lunchtime. While in college I worked 10 hours a day Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday. Saturd…

IMO: I have never worked in a job where I would have been like "heck yeah, four day work week lets do it". Part of that is, there's kinda two distinct and separate camps, and sometimes its unclear which camp people are in and what we're fighting for. Is it "I work ~40 hours in four days" or "I work ~32 hours in four days"? And my take is, I don't like either of these solutions. I've never worked in a role where I fee…

> I've never worked in a role where I feel like working 32 hours a week would deliver meaningfully similar results to working 40 hours.

It may be my neurodivergency, but I'm the exact opposite. There's rarely a job where I'm *actually, butts-in-seats working* for 40 hours a week where I would deliver, over a study period of months, more good, correct and helpful work than if I spend less time at work.

I could probably technically vomit out more code; but it would be more buggy and have more design decisions that would bite me later (and more possibly sink the company).

Of course 20 hours is better than 10 hours; and for most people, 20 hours is better than 30; but is 40 hours better than 30? For a lot of people, I __don't think so__, but I also think those same people have been tricked into a system where they're forced to go beyond their own comfort and maximum operating efficiency just to show their presence and willingness to work.

And I think they're harmed in the long term for it.

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