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Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

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Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#161

Post by anshumankmr »

weinzierl wrote: post #133

We had a time when CGI took off, where everything was too polished and shiny and everyone found it uncanny. That started a whole industry to produce virtual wear, tear, dust, grit and dirt. I wager we will soon see the same for text. Automatic insertion of the right amount of believable mistakes will become a thing.

Without some form of watermarking, I do not believe there is any way to differentiate. How that water marking would look like I have no clue.

The pandora's box has been opened with regards to large language models.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#162

Post by windows_hater_7 »

willvarfar wrote: post #90
prepend wrote: post #22

My kids’ school added a new weapons scanner as kids walk in the door. It’s powered by “AI.” They trust the AI quite a bit. However, the AI identifies the school issued Lenovo laptops as weapons. So every kid was flagged. Rather than stopping using such a stupid tool, they just have the kids remove their laptops before going through the scanner. I expect not smart enough people are buying “AI” products and trusting th…

Do you think it stupid to scan kids for weapons, or stupid to think that a metal detector will find weapons?

A high school I worked at had a similar system in place called Evolv. It’s not a metal detector, but it did successfully catch a student with a loaded gun in his backpack. Granted, he didn’t mean to bring the gun to school. I think it’s stupid to believe that kids who want to bring a gun to school will arrive on time to school. They often arrive late when security procedures like bag scanning are not in place.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#163

Post by happymellon »

borski wrote: post #27
happymellon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately with AI, AI detection, and schools its all rather Judge Dredd. They issue the claim, the judgement and the penalty. And there is nothing you can do about it. Why? Because they *are* the law.

That’s not even remotely true. You can raise it with the local board of education. You can sue the board and/or the school. You can sue the university, and likely even win. They literally are not the law, and that is why you can take them to court.

What a moronic thing to say.

Police aren't the law because they have been sued?

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#165

Post by k__ »

I'm a professional writer and test AI and AI detectors ever other month.

Plagiarism detectors kinda work, but you can always use one to locate plagiarized sections and fix them yourself.

I have a plagiarism rate under 5%, usually coming from the use of well known phrases.

An AI usually has over 10%.

Obviously that doesn't help in an academic context when people mark their citations.

The perplexity checks don't work, as humans seem to vary highly in that regard. Some of my own text has less perplexity as a comparable AI text.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#166

Post by hhh »

hyperbrainer wrote: post #140
arkh wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't learn directions now: we use GPS. We don't do calculations: computers do it for us. We don't accumulate knowledge: we trust Google to give us the information when needed. Everything in a small package everyone can wear all day long. We're at the second step of transhumanism.

At least the first 2 are far more accurate than humans ever could be. The third, i.e. trusting others to vet and find the correct information, is the problem.

Why? We've done it for ages, most trust in Wikipedia, and before most trusted in encyclopedias. Books written by others have been used forever. We just shift where we place the trust over time.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#167

Post by tkgally »

cfcf14 wrote: post #143

AI detectors do not work. I have spoken with many people who think that the particular writing style of commercial LLMs (ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude) is the result of some intrinsic characteristic of LLMs - either the data or the architecture. The belief is that this particular tone of 'voice' (chirpy sycophant), textual structure (bullet lists and verbosity), and vocab ('delve', et al) serves and and will continue to se…

> We need to search for new solutions and new approaches for education.

Thank you for that and for everything you wrote above it. I completely agree, and you put it much better than I could have.

I teach at a university in Japan. We started struggling with such issues in 2017, soon after Google Translate suddenly got better and nonnative writers became able to use it to produce okay writing in English or another second language. Discussions about how to respond continued among educators—with no consensus being reached—until the release of ChatGPT, which kicked the problem into overdrive. As you say, new approaches to education are absolutely necessary, but finding them and getting stakeholders to agree to them is proving to be very, very difficult.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#168

Post by anshumankmr »

rfrey wrote: post #69
borski wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know how to break this to you, but cheating was always free, simple, and ubiquitous. Sure, ChatGPT wouldn’t write your paper; but your buddy who needed his math problem solved would. Or find a paper on countless sites on the Internet.

That's just not so. Most profs were in school years before the internet was ubiquitous. And asking a friend to do your work for you is simple, but far from free.

Free -> You would owe them a favour, or some "excessive flattery". Maybe money (never had to do that myself)

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#169

Post by Nemrod67 »

xnorswap wrote: post #150
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns are legal in almost every country - I think your problem is with countries that have almost no restriction on gun ownership. e.g. Here in the UK you can legally own a properly licensed rifle or shotgun and even a handgun in some places outside of Great Britain (e.g. Northern Ireland).

Just because something is technically legal, doesn't mean it's in any way common or part of UK culture to own a gun. There hasn't been a school shooting in the UK for nearly 30 years. Handguns were banned after the last school shooting and there hasn't been one since. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:School_shootings_in_t... Although that fact is sometimes forgotten by schools who copy the US in having "active…

let us ban knives then...

got a license for that mate?

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#170

Post by PeterStuer »

ffujdefvjg wrote: post #109
prepend wrote: post #22

My kids’ school added a new weapons scanner as kids walk in the door. It’s powered by “AI.” They trust the AI quite a bit. However, the AI identifies the school issued Lenovo laptops as weapons. So every kid was flagged. Rather than stopping using such a stupid tool, they just have the kids remove their laptops before going through the scanner. I expect not smart enough people are buying “AI” products and trusting th…

> I expect not smart enough people are buying “AI” products and trusting them to do the things they want them to do, but don’t work. People are willing to believe almost anything as long as it makes their lives a little more convenient.

Or it is accepted that said purchase will cover their ass, or even better, that refusing said purchase can be held against them in the future if things happen, even if said purchase would have made 0 difference.
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