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Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

theguardian.com

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Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#121

Post by watwut »

asdasdsddd wrote: post #105
justonenote wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can't answer for GP but most likely because he is male himself and so speaking to what he knows. Your question sounds like you are baiting, like you are pretending to be so naive that you are not aware that men and women face different expectations and circumstances growing up, and moreso there is something wrong with expressing concern for boys without also including girls. Maybe, hopefully, I'm reading you wrong.

Thank you, leftist universalism is really annoying to engage with. You could say, "its important to wash your hands" and they will ask you why you are being ableist and excluding people without hands.

In this case, someone asked completely inoffensive question in an inoffensive way asking for details ... you two went on an angry rant offended. This question literally could have a meaningful answer and someone even tried.

Like, it is not clear whether any leftist even entered the discussion, the question could easily be asked by someone neutral or conservative. But it was definitely not a leftist who took offense over nothing.

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#122

Post by JackMorgan »

A few things make this effective: freedom to follow one's curiosity, personal responsibility, and intrinsic motivation over extrinsic.

I used to teach public middle school, and I developed a profound belief that how we educate students is entirely backwards.

The things that make an off year effective scales to an entire K-12 program! See the free democratic schools like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_school I believe the majority of students would thrive in such a school, if they had the chance.

They have no formal classes, no teachers, no tests. Yet students still learn to read earlier, they read more and at a higher level. They graduate from college at higher rates, and have higher rates of entrepreneurship. I believe this model is a superior pedagogical model for the majority of the population.

"The Sudbury pedagogical philosophy may be summarized as the following: Learning is a natural by-product of all human activity. Learning is self-initiated and self-motivated.

The educational model states that there are many ways to learn and that learning is a process someone does, not a process that is done to him or her; According to the model the presence and guidance of a teacher is not necessary. "

Check out:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sudbury_schools

https://www.phillyfreeschool.org/why-it-works

The problem is we are stuck with our current model - even when alternatives have better outcomes, parents just say "well my kid would not do well with that, they are too lazy to even do what we ask." They do not realize that our current model is so broken that disinterest in a student is a perfectly rational response.

For example, I think video game addiction is a natural response to being forced to do something you hate 8-12 hours a day. The fact that the Philly Free School has very few students ever even playing video games at all (but they are allowed to all day if they want) paints a very clear picture that video games are a symptom not a cause.

And finally, a damning indictment of our current model; https://cantrip.org/gatto.html

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#123

Post by corimaith »

sollewitt wrote: post #26

In TY in 1998 I: worked at an architect's, an archeologist's, a hospital, an epidemiological research institute where I got to use _my own computer_ all day - decided I needed to work with computers, got a summer job there. earned the President's Award medal had one class where we stripped an engine over the term got my first aid certificate learned how to develop film took night classes touch typing (on an electric…

This isn't really possible today though. You'd be barred from tons of layers of "competitive admission " where you'd needs months of preparation in of itself to "show interest". No trying things out, experience is reserved for those who already have the experience.

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#124

Post by corimaith »

h_tbob wrote: post #98

Everybody mocks me when I say this. But the most productive people in the world spent their time doing what they thought was fun. It’s like our biology is smarter than us. If it’s fun our brains are telling us there’s something about it we need. It’s like when you think a girl is cute for the first time. There’s no logic in it to you, but it’s the most logical thing in the world, that’s why it’s fun. Hans Zimmer used…

Well I think that's the predicament of the mismatch between one's inner predispositions and what society demands.

If it aligns it's cool and you can reach for the stars, but there is a wide scope of activities that won't make a living. Especially given our origins as hunter-gatherers or explorers, for someone with similar predispositions, what can they really do that fits that? Most likely they'd end spending most of their time playing video games to satiate those urges than to

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#125

Post by animal531 »

sollewitt wrote: post #26

In TY in 1998 I: worked at an architect's, an archeologist's, a hospital, an epidemiological research institute where I got to use _my own computer_ all day - decided I needed to work with computers, got a summer job there. earned the President's Award medal had one class where we stripped an engine over the term got my first aid certificate learned how to develop film took night classes touch typing (on an electric…

It sounds like an awesome idea to me. Personally I knew what I was going to do for the rest of my life as soon as I discovered computers and how to manipulate them with code, but then on the other hand my sister's youngest two daughters both hit 18 recently and neither had any idea of what they wanted to do.

As a result both of them just got pushed into something at the end.

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#126

Post by sotix »

h_tbob wrote: post #98

Everybody mocks me when I say this. But the most productive people in the world spent their time doing what they thought was fun. It’s like our biology is smarter than us. If it’s fun our brains are telling us there’s something about it we need. It’s like when you think a girl is cute for the first time. There’s no logic in it to you, but it’s the most logical thing in the world, that’s why it’s fun. Hans Zimmer used…

> But the most productive people in the world spent their time doing what they thought was fun.

This is essentially the philosophy of unschooling[0], which the recurse center[1] follows. I definitely agree with you! Pursuing fun and curiosity has led me to my most productive and moments.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling

[1]: https://www.recurse.com/

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#127

Post by patrickwalton »

I had this in the U.S. and it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. My parents signed me up for homeschool every year, but I still did public school. As a result, I just did whatever classes I wanted. Junior year, I realized that I'd have to drop all my fun classes and just do core for the last year and a half to graduate. Decided instead to not graduate and just find books on different topics from the library. Ended up with: - Huckleberry Finn - a deep History book on Roman Britain - a nonfiction coffee table book on space - an intro to physics workbook - a Spanish book - a book on governments around the world

As it happened, I worked through 4 big space books and realized that I was really passionate about space. When I started college it was easy to plan my direction and be motivated because I knew the area I wanted to work in.

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#128

Post by ativzzz »

h_tbob wrote: post #98

Everybody mocks me when I say this. But the most productive people in the world spent their time doing what they thought was fun. It’s like our biology is smarter than us. If it’s fun our brains are telling us there’s something about it we need. It’s like when you think a girl is cute for the first time. There’s no logic in it to you, but it’s the most logical thing in the world, that’s why it’s fun. Hans Zimmer used…

I want to play video games. I spent my childhood playing games in every waking moment of my free time that I could get away with. I did the same thing in my young adulthood, and now my current life.

As an adult, unfortunately (lol), family and job take priority and I can't just play video games all day, despite my wishes.

I would have approximately zero productivity if I just did what I thought was fun. I'm sure I'm not alone.

If I don't have some sort of exterior structure or motivator, I will literally get nothing done, and I have no desire to.

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#129

Post by tmn »

ativzzz wrote: post #128
h_tbob wrote: post #98

Everybody mocks me when I say this. But the most productive people in the world spent their time doing what they thought was fun. It’s like our biology is smarter than us. If it’s fun our brains are telling us there’s something about it we need. It’s like when you think a girl is cute for the first time. There’s no logic in it to you, but it’s the most logical thing in the world, that’s why it’s fun. Hans Zimmer used…

I want to play video games. I spent my childhood playing games in every waking moment of my free time that I could get away with. I did the same thing in my young adulthood, and now my current life. As an adult, unfortunately (lol), family and job take priority and I can't just play video games all day, despite my wishes. I would have approximately zero productivity if I just did what I thought was fun. I'm sure I'm…

Your point is completely relevant for today. That said, it's curious to think about how that attention may have been channeled in a world free from such man made stimulation traps.

Re: Ireland's big school secret: how a year off-curriculum changes teenage lives

#130

Post by ativzzz »

tmn wrote: post #129
ativzzz wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to play video games. I spent my childhood playing games in every waking moment of my free time that I could get away with. I did the same thing in my young adulthood, and now my current life. As an adult, unfortunately (lol), family and job take priority and I can't just play video games all day, despite my wishes. I would have approximately zero productivity if I just did what I thought was fun. I'm sure I'm…

Your point is completely relevant for today. That said, it's curious to think about how that attention may have been channeled in a world free from such man made stimulation traps.

Likely, I'd just want to do whatever the best man made stimulation trap was at the time
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