Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

mobeigi.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 372 posts

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#151

Post by BlueTemplar »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #110
ZeroCool2u wrote: post #5

Server side only anti-cheat is one of the problem domains that I'd really love to work on at some point in my career. This is the type of adversarial arms race that just seems really fun to think long and hard about.

The state of the art is pretty boring and you can learn about user command payloads in an afternoon. The world is much more complex now that YOLO-based aimbots exist, and I think the real answer is that anti-cheats are now defeatable, period. You can craft a private binary that has no hash registered to any major anti-cheat service on the client-side, and on the server-side you’re limited to what is allowed by game r…

> now that YOLO-based aimbots exist

the what ?!?

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#152

Post by johnisgood »

oneplane wrote: post #139
johnisgood wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even the base example would make that specific scenario trivial: an account that is new has no business "being better" than everyone else. You cannot and should not rely on that, depending on what account really means, e.g. in ioquake3 games, having a new GUID (you delete a specific file to get a new one) makes you a new player.

Sure, it would only work on games where the client and server both authenticate, otherwise none of this will work as there would be no reputation to be relied on.

I agree, just thought I would mention. :)

> A smurf is a player who creates another account to play against lower-ranked opponents in online games.

Happens in many games, including League of Legends on which people typically spend a lot of money.

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#153

Post by Arch-TK »

derefr wrote: post #121
project2501a wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry for the not-so-smart question. the cheats are software, software has certain quirks, like the way it aims or the way it tracks. And I'm willing to bet it has enough distinctiveness from human aiming to be classified. Couldn't a classifier work on the behavior of the cheating software itself, rather than use IP bans?

In order to actually catch a cheater mid-match rather than long after the match is already over, you'd need the servers that players are interacting through to have enough CPU grunt-force to do that kind of analysis "faster than realtime" — i.e. for the server's CPU to be able to run the game's physics faster than any client can, so it can run the physics with extra math in the same time it takes the clients to just…

CSGO doesn't do P2P matchmaking and Valve _are_ working on real-time heuristics based cheat detection to kick cheaters mid-match

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#154

Post by ultimafan »

jdietrich wrote: post #143
johnisgood wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you referring to by "gamesense"? FWIW you can implement all sorts of movement hacks, from dodging bullet particles to appearing laggy enough to seem to be teleporting.

Gamesense: a mental model of the game by which players can anticipate and pre-empt the actions of other players. A CS:GO player with good gamesense will habitually keep their crosshairs at head height and aim at corners where an enemy is likely to emerge. They'll have an intuitive sense of how long it takes to run from one point on the map to another. They'll listen through walls for footsteps to try and decode where…

Yeah, it feels like a dead giveaway when someone at higher ranks has near perfect but within the realm of believable gameplay from a mechanical standpoint (great aim control/accuracy, hitting lots of flick shots) but then they're running all over like a headless chicken, getting lost on the map, have no regard for positioning and angles when pushing or defending, just purely leveraging "skill" alone.

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#155

Post by grayhatter »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #109

Couldn’t you stop cheaters by just looking at how their telemetry metrics are different from the baseline? If you get to a point where the cheater has to cheat to only be as good as a median player in the lobby in order to evade detection, you’ve effectively neutered it.

How would something like that work?

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#156

Post by BlueTemplar »

LinuxAmbulance wrote: post #18

Excellent write up and solution. Cheating in video games makes for a wretched experience for those who don't cheat. It's crazy how rampant cheating in multiplayer games, especially competitive ones has gotten. Ten years ago, I thought it was at an extreme, but it's only gone up since then. Part of the problem is that for some software developers, writing cheats brings in a massive amount of money. So instead of some…

Some competitive multiplayer games.

Which seem to be exclusively FPS games with ~10+M players ?

I don't even remember the last time when I've heard of a game outside that very narrow (albeit decently popular) category to have complaints about cheaters. Meanwhile for these games, I hear about it like every month, and all this despite this genre being amongst the ones that I play the least !

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#157

Post by mardifoufs »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #151
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state of the art is pretty boring and you can learn about user command payloads in an afternoon. The world is much more complex now that YOLO-based aimbots exist, and I think the real answer is that anti-cheats are now defeatable, period. You can craft a private binary that has no hash registered to any major anti-cheat service on the client-side, and on the server-side you’re limited to what is allowed by game r…

> now that YOLO-based aimbots exist the what ?!?

Probably refers to the YOLO family of object detection/classification models. Though I wasn't aware that they could be used for something like cheating in csgo. They are really fast compared to most AI models but I thought that it still wouldn't be fast enough to give you a real advantage (especially for pros), as cheats usually depend on "wall hacks" or similar, and being able to see more than what you could see on your screen.

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#158

Post by [deleted] »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #151
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state of the art is pretty boring and you can learn about user command payloads in an afternoon. The world is much more complex now that YOLO-based aimbots exist, and I think the real answer is that anti-cheats are now defeatable, period. You can craft a private binary that has no hash registered to any major anti-cheat service on the client-side, and on the server-side you’re limited to what is allowed by game r…

> now that YOLO-based aimbots exist the what ?!?

[deleted]

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#159

Post by mvdtnz »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #156
LinuxAmbulance wrote: post #18

Excellent write up and solution. Cheating in video games makes for a wretched experience for those who don't cheat. It's crazy how rampant cheating in multiplayer games, especially competitive ones has gotten. Ten years ago, I thought it was at an extreme, but it's only gone up since then. Part of the problem is that for some software developers, writing cheats brings in a massive amount of money. So instead of some…

Some competitive multiplayer games. Which seem to be exclusively FPS games with ~10+M players ? I don't even remember the last time when I've heard of a game outside that very narrow (albeit decently popular) category to have complaints about cheaters. Meanwhile for these games, I hear about it like every month, and all this despite this genre being amongst the ones that I play the least !

Cheating is commonplace in lots of games much smaller than that. Company of Heroes 2 (an RTS released in 2013) for example is pretty much ruined by map hackers.

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#160

Post by [deleted] »

ultimafan wrote: post #76

Cheating in online games is a scourge and I really don't understand why people do it. It's one person selfishly getting a "win" at the expense of ~60 other people in that match having their time, pleasure, potentially money absolutely wasted. I think even more infuriating than blatant hacking is this epidemic of "micro cheating" for lack of a better way to put it that I've seen prevalent in some games that just boost…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN