Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

mobeigi.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 372 posts

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#131

Post by [deleted] »

willcipriano wrote: post #42
Night_Thastus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only problem is, a lot of companies do NOT want to pay for it. It's 'treadmill work'. No matter how many people and how much money you throw at the problem, it still ends up just coming back. It's a losing battle because there are many, many more players than there are developers.

My idea: 1. Determine minimum human reaction times and limit movement to within those parameters on the client side. (For example a human can't swing their view around [in a fps] in a microsecond so make that impossible on the client) this will require a lot of user testing to get right, get pro players and push their limits. 2. Build a 'unified field theory' for your game world that is aware of the client side const…

[deleted]

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#132

Post by johnisgood »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #125
willcipriano wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My idea: 1. Determine minimum human reaction times and limit movement to within those parameters on the client side. (For example a human can't swing their view around [in a fps] in a microsecond so make that impossible on the client) this will require a lot of user testing to get right, get pro players and push their limits. 2. Build a 'unified field theory' for your game world that is aware of the client side const…

The vast majority of cheaters are not "rage hacking", but instead using cheats as a skill assist. Take a moment and think about how you would design cheats that would be undetectable. Hot keys, real time adjustments, all the options and parameters you could provide cheater to dial in their choice experience while also keeping them looking legit. Then realize cheat developers thought of all that decades ago and it is…

> skill assist

Yeah, most games have builtin aimbot, called "aim assist". I do not like it, in fact, I find it annoying as a player, too (I come from Quake 3).

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#133

Post by colechristensen »

drdaeman wrote: post #83
Ekaros wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And even then you could do aimbot with camera pointed on the screen and either faking a mouse or providing sensor sufficient data somehow to simulate movement... That is reach super human reaction times and accuracy...

I wish I'd live to see the time of true cyborgs who will exceed ordinary human capabilities in some regard.

How attached and how technical does it have to be to be "cyborg".

Me with a pen and paper exceeds many human capabilites.

Likewise with wearables like a smartwatch.

Does it have to be direct neural integration to be a cyborg? Definitely people with profound brain injuries have been enhanced to the ability to interact again.

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#134

Post by ultimafan »

daghamm wrote: post #91
ultimafan wrote: post #76

Cheating in online games is a scourge and I really don't understand why people do it. It's one person selfishly getting a "win" at the expense of ~60 other people in that match having their time, pleasure, potentially money absolutely wasted. I think even more infuriating than blatant hacking is this epidemic of "micro cheating" for lack of a better way to put it that I've seen prevalent in some games that just boost…

Cheating is also big business. Players can pay big bucks to rent (!) a cheat. IIRC there is an episode on darkness diaries podcast about this.

Yeah I get that, I understand why cheat developers do what they do. It seems like there's a huge market and I find it hard to blame them trying to make a living- morality wise they're probably more worried about rent, bills, family than whether or not someone's game time is ruined. But it's only this way because so many people are willing enough to cheat that dropping money on it is fine for them. It's their psychology I don't really get. Even if they're doing it because they want the satisfaction of a "win", doesn't that victory feel hollow because it's something they paid money for? It's like the difference between a community valuing you enough to give you an award vs going down to the trophy shop and paying someone a make you your own trophy that doesn't really mean anything.

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#135

Post by johnisgood »

jorvi wrote: post #116
willcipriano wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My idea: 1. Determine minimum human reaction times and limit movement to within those parameters on the client side. (For example a human can't swing their view around [in a fps] in a microsecond so make that impossible on the client) this will require a lot of user testing to get right, get pro players and push their limits. 2. Build a 'unified field theory' for your game world that is aware of the client side const…

> Now cheating has to at look like high level play instead of someone flying around spinbotting everyone from across the map. Players hopefully don't get as frustrated when playing against cheaters as they assume they are just great players. Great players should be competitive against cheaters as well. No, those are still just as vehemently hated as “closet cheaters”, for example the whole XIM / Cronus infestation on…

What are you referring to by "gamesense"? FWIW you can implement all sorts of movement hacks, from dodging bullet particles to appearing laggy enough to seem to be teleporting.

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#136

Post by johnisgood »

oneplane wrote: post #81
Night_Thastus wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to balance around those sorts of things. For example, imagine a cheat that gives the player additional info about where enemies are and their state (ie: health). Even if they are of totally normal skill level in terms of movement and aim, that info will allow them to be substantially better than others. How are you going to detect that, and differentiate it from players who simply have a great sense of map…

Even the base example would make that specific scenario trivial: an account that is new has no business "being better" than everyone else. The only group you'd punish with that is skilled players that lose their account (and create a new one), but if you use a moving skill window they can grow back into their plausibility pretty quickly, and it's a small cost compared to everything else. And you could even mitigate t…

> Even the base example would make that specific scenario trivial: an account that is new has no business "being better" than everyone else.

You cannot and should not rely on that, depending on what account really means, e.g. in ioquake3 games, having a new GUID (you delete a specific file to get a new one) makes you a new player.

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#137

Post by blangk »

derefr wrote: post #121
project2501a wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry for the not-so-smart question. the cheats are software, software has certain quirks, like the way it aims or the way it tracks. And I'm willing to bet it has enough distinctiveness from human aiming to be classified. Couldn't a classifier work on the behavior of the cheating software itself, rather than use IP bans?

In order to actually catch a cheater mid-match rather than long after the match is already over, you'd need the servers that players are interacting through to have enough CPU grunt-force to do that kind of analysis "faster than realtime" — i.e. for the server's CPU to be able to run the game's physics faster than any client can, so it can run the physics with extra math in the same time it takes the clients to just…

Not to mention the most sophisticated cheats are now running on second computers

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#138

Post by johnisgood »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #54

In general, hardware/GPU/MAC signature hash checks are the only consistent way to bind player account histories, and even then cheats will change their identity with new hardware on fake postal addresses. Best to add a few weeks delay with "reviewing" ban status to prevent them returning hardware to retailers. Each day randomly permute which hardware signature trips the auto-re-ban after a random number of minutes. C…

Unless I misunderstood, I do not see how this would actually work in practice considering the client can be modified and I can send whatever I want to the server, i.e. spoofing.

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#139

Post by oneplane »

johnisgood wrote: post #136
oneplane wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the base example would make that specific scenario trivial: an account that is new has no business "being better" than everyone else. The only group you'd punish with that is skilled players that lose their account (and create a new one), but if you use a moving skill window they can grow back into their plausibility pretty quickly, and it's a small cost compared to everything else. And you could even mitigate t…

> Even the base example would make that specific scenario trivial: an account that is new has no business "being better" than everyone else. You cannot and should not rely on that, depending on what account really means, e.g. in ioquake3 games, having a new GUID (you delete a specific file to get a new one) makes you a new player.

Sure, it would only work on games where the client and server both authenticate, otherwise none of this will work as there would be no reputation to be relied on.

Re: We outsmarted CSGO cheaters with IdentityLogger

#140

Post by ultimafan »

xnyan wrote: post #130
Systemmanic wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was screwed up about the NA ranks?

NA is (or at least was when I played) the most populated and visible regional zone, and attracts a lot of players attempting various kinds of rank manipulation. On the one hand you have smurfing, which is the practice of a relatively high skill player using a an account with relatively low rank so that they can dominate lower ranked players. On the other side you have boosting, which is a relatively high skill player…

This was my experience too years ago when I played CSGO. The difficulty at higher ranks (up to a certain point) felt significantly easier than the lower ranks. Getting out of the silver and gold ranks (can't remember the exact names) was a hellish grind with lots of matches that ended in one sided stomps with one or two guys on the other team racking up some insane k/d. Past that was smooth sailing for a long long way.
Post reply on HN