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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#431

Post by AnthonyMouse »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #238
dspillett wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't something I've seen advertised by credit card companies here (UK) but in the US at least some offer virtual cards whereby you can give different vendors a specific virtual card and cancel that if they don't stop taking payments when you want them to. As much as I'm not a big fan of PayPal¹ I use that rather than separate credit card payments/subs for online purchases including subs for things like hosting ac…

My PayPal story (in short, search my comments if you want more detail) - I bought a cheap game ( I contacted PayPal, who opened a case, according to their agreement with Steam (which I'm not party to). PayPal found Steam to be in breach of their agreement (PayPal & Steam's). I was refunded. Then Steam enacted petty revenge against me, and continue to do so. PayPal acted laudibly, imo, but there seems to be nothing on…

The real problem here is that the banks make the rules and they like rules that allow them to covertly screw everyone.

What you really want is a system where a customer who issues a chargeback that isn't disputed gets the money back, but the merchant also doesn't get a chargeback fee because there is no dispute. And then if there is a dispute (and the customer still wants to do the chargeback), the chargeback fee is loser pays. Then you have a reasonable way for customers to issue legitimate chargebacks that still discourages illegitimate ones.

What we have instead is that if you do a chargeback, the merchant gets whacked with a chargeback fee in the range of $20-$50. Obviously the banks love this; they get the money. But the merchants respond by banning customers who do this, because if you make a $5 purchase with a $1.50 margin and then issue a chargeback, the risk that you do it again before you make enough purchases to even recover the first one is too large.

But if you prohibited merchants from dropping customers over that then there would be no deterrent to fraudulent chargebacks (or to using the chargeback system with the eye-watering fees instead of the merchant's RMA process), so there would be more of them, and merchants would have to raise prices on everybody else even more to cover the bank's fees.

Whereas if you had a balanced system that minimized fraudulent chargebacks while still allowing (and eliminating fees for undisputed) legitimate ones, that would minimize chargeback fees, which is exactly what the banks don't want.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#432

Post by thayne »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #385
justinpombrio wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unsubscribe links are a fantastic regulation, but there is a workaround. I must have received at least a dozen emails from Brown after graduating despite unsubscribing to every email they sent. The trouble is they're endlessly creative about the lists they put you on. I'd get one email from "Alumni Connections" and then another from "Faculty Spotlight" and then another from "Global Outreach" and then another from "Ev…

I've also found unsubscribe links that don't do anything. Like the unsubscribe link simply fails to work; nothing happens when you click on it.

I got on a mailing list for something from IBM. The unsubscribe link took me to a page that always said it was "temporarily" unavailable I should try again later. The first time I gave them the benefit of the doubt. After a few tries over the course of months, I decided that it was permanently unavailable, and if it really was broken, they didn't have any motivation to fix it. So I set up a filter to automatically delete everything from that domain.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#433

Post by compootr »

maccard wrote: post #373
inetknght wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I immediately mark them as "spam". Ahh yes, the feel-good response that Google gives you without doing anything substantial to prevent spam from reaching you in the future.

My experience with the spam button is 1) they never ever go into my inbox again if they do keep sending, and 2) as someone who has had emails marked as spam (from people who actively clicked the sign up to my newsletter button) your ability to send email gets neutered pretty quickly. What is your experience?

I use my own domain so I can return mails as bounced, which mail providers don't like, since it may indicate attempting to send unsolicited mail to loads of addresses.

it's not me, it's you. Screw you if you send me mail I don't want!

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#434

Post by mtgentry »

justinpombrio wrote: post #265
Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

Unsubscribe links are a fantastic regulation, but there is a workaround. I must have received at least a dozen emails from Brown after graduating despite unsubscribing to every email they sent. The trouble is they're endlessly creative about the lists they put you on. I'd get one email from "Alumni Connections" and then another from "Faculty Spotlight" and then another from "Global Outreach" and then another from "Ev…

Reminds me of text messages from the DNC. I gave my phone number to Obama in ‘08 and have been endlessly pestered ever since.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#435

Post by gpjanik »

Where is EU when you need it? Subscriptions are a mess and it's one place in which EU could've forced something, but it won't.

I also think they're mentally aligned with the idea of having to go through 20 forms to achieve something, as that's their daily job.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#436

Post by asdff »

bilsbie wrote: post #101

I wonder how this would work for gyms? They should clean up their act anyway. If other customers are like me I’ve been putting off joining for over a year because they’re so scammy and I don’t want to get locked in. I even went to sign up and walked out because the price ended up being double what they advertised with weird fees and the base plan not being useable once they explain it.

Gyms are so damn scummy with this. When I cancelled my last gym membership due to moving I had to show them that there would be no nearby gyms of that brand where I was moving in order to let me cancel.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#437

Post by whatindaheck »

linsomniac wrote: post #327
SoftTalker wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe they also offer a "stop allowing charges by this merchant" feature If they have this it's another reason to use them for automatic billing. I have tried to do this with a VISA card and they said they cannot do it; the only way to prevent future charges would be to close that account entirely and even then I might still get billed for some period of time.

I use one of those banks that allows me to generate sub-accounts easily, each of which has an account number for e-checks and Debit card number. So I can use that for subscriptions, either fund it once, or fund it regularly via automated transfers from my main balance, or you can set it up to just automatically pull from your main account. Then when you're done with it, you can close that sub-account. It's worked ver…

Check out Privacy.com for card generation. You can set monthly/yearly/all-limits, pause and cancel cards, create single-use cards, etc. And their virtual cards accept any billing information. As a result I don’t bother unsubscribing directly anymore and instead just pause the card. Less hassle. More control.

I’m also using Qube and looking to get away but I really like having the sub-accounts. What have you found? Envelope seems to have really nice features but lacks the sub-accounts.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#438

Post by xboxnolifes »

digging wrote: post #250
Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

I'm super appreciative of what we have, but there's absolutely issues. CAN-SPAM specifies that the link must be clearly marked and suggests using CSS to do so, but the link is still always going to be at the bottom of the email in the smallest font used. It only matters for those of us who know to look for it ; many people just have to live with the spam because they don't know it's easy to unsubscribe. Sometimes it'…

I don't really see putting important links in the footer as anti-pattern. For my entire internet life, many important links were put into the footer of a webpage. Careers, About Us, Contact Us, Locations, Citations, etc. They are expected to be there.

Most emails I get aren't long enough to scroll anyway. Companies generally know people aren't going to read more than maybe a sentence in a given email. I can get to most unsubscribe buttons without even scrolling. If I do scroll, it's like 3 scroll wheel notches.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#439

Post by lovethevoid »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #376
lovethevoid wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got to love the CAN-SPAM act. It seems rare such acts would pass these days without making substantial compromises for advertisers. Which if it were up to them, we would still be looking for a tiny unsubscribe link at the very bottom in a font color that matches the background.

Wait wait, are you saying you don't need to do that? You and I live in different worlds

I don't, I just press this button (not my screenshot) https://www.badsender.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/bouton-...

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#440

Post by bmurphy1976 »

justinpombrio wrote: post #265
Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

Unsubscribe links are a fantastic regulation, but there is a workaround. I must have received at least a dozen emails from Brown after graduating despite unsubscribing to every email they sent. The trouble is they're endlessly creative about the lists they put you on. I'd get one email from "Alumni Connections" and then another from "Faculty Spotlight" and then another from "Global Outreach" and then another from "Ev…

Hey, at least you went to school there. I've gotten a ton of emails from LSU over the years. I don't think I've even been within 100 miles of Louisiana.
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