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#BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

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Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#251

Post by ComputerGuru »

boredguy8 wrote: post #12

Wow that live stream update is a nightmare - I keep trying to read what's happened and things get pushed down almost immediately. A clickable (or w/e) "18 new posts" would make it usable.

Every single site that has a live stream starts off thinking: "we're going to be cooler than the competition, our live stream will actually update in real time," then realizes "uh-oh, maybe there's a reason other sites don't actually pull the updates and show them in real time"

Facebook, twitter, stackoverflow, et. al. have all previously used the constantly-updating stream technique only to switch away to the "x new posts, click to view"

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#252

Post by mongol »

raganesh wrote: post #227
dhughes wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK Apple is the only mobile phone corporation who refuses to pay Motorola a royalty for the fundamental patent of a "portable hand-held telephone device".

Let's talk about that in context. Motorola contributed some patents to a mobile telecom standard; they made a commitment to license these standard essential patents in Fair, Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory terms to everyone who wants to build a "portable hand-held telephone device". Motorola wants 2.25% of the sale price of each Apple device in which the standard is used. Now, if each patent contributor to the stan…

Let's see here... Motorola together with telecom companies such as Nokia, Ericsson, Siemens etc worked for decades in establishing standards and infrastructure for digital mobile phones. In this they were truly succesful, and this would not have been possible unless they had shared patents with each other that were involved in common standards. Then, much later, enters Apple and brings nothing to the table with regards to telecom technology. Why should they not pay?

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#253

Post by mitchty »

cgranade wrote: post #206
mitchty wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then you're boycotting Motorola and Google products as well because they had a similar injunction against Apple in Germany right? If not why? I find it amusing how emotional tech people get over these patent wars. Its one companies legal team versus the other over legalities and trivialities. If you looked at how often car companies sued each other over look and feel patents you would realize the whole thing is a…

"Evaluate technology for its tech, not for the company's legal team." No. Doing so means that I can become complicit in legal actions that ultimately hurt me as a consumer by providing companies like Apple with the revenue they need to fund such attacks. One must consider the legal actions, the social actions, etc. of a company when buying their products; it's part of being a responsible and long-term self-interested…

I'm curious then, what exactly do you buy? Almost every company on this planet has done things both legally and socially that would mean you boycott almost all corporations. This would asus is out, samsung, motorola, , how do you correlate this view with the rest of the products you buy?

Do you drive a car and fill it with gasoline or diesel? Then likely you're implicating yourself in the extraction of natural resources and disasters with this viewpoint. While I applaud the concept, it seems a bit restrictive. Note I'm not saying you should deny when companies do bad things like an oil spill disaster, but if we're going to glom on extra responsibilities for corporations that build devices we buy we're going down a very slippery slope that can only end with abandoning modern lifestyles.

Also another question, if patents are granted and being infringed, are you saying companies should not act upon infringement? If yes, then why would companies get patents?

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#255

Post by SoftwareMaven »

technoslut wrote: post #181
kitsune_ wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that while for huge conglomerates such as Samsung and companies like Apple this is a mere game for their law departments, it's much more serious for the small developer? Big corporations could pretty much shut down any start up if they wanted to. The reverse is not true. Could Panic Software have sued Apple because of the Audion / iTunes story? So what good is the patent law if it only benefits th…

I don't know if Panic had any patents regarding this. The patent system doesn't really benefit the small developer. I was listening to Build & Analyze and Marco Arment was asked if he would patent features of Instapaper and he essentially said that it is more pain than it's worth. They don't have time time and money required to enforce it.

That is a horrible idea now that patents in the US are first to file rather than first to invent. You leave yourself open to somebody else patenting it, then coming back and suing you. Sure, you might be able to get that patent thrown out, but there is no guarantee and you are dumping a ton of money on lawyers in the process.

Like it or not, patent trolling is just getting warmed up.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#256

Post by raganesh »

mongol wrote: post #252
raganesh wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's talk about that in context. Motorola contributed some patents to a mobile telecom standard; they made a commitment to license these standard essential patents in Fair, Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory terms to everyone who wants to build a "portable hand-held telephone device". Motorola wants 2.25% of the sale price of each Apple device in which the standard is used. Now, if each patent contributor to the stan…

Let's see here... Motorola together with telecom companies such as Nokia, Ericsson, Siemens etc worked for decades in establishing standards and infrastructure for digital mobile phones. In this they were truly succesful, and this would not have been possible unless they had shared patents with each other that were involved in common standards. Then, much later, enters Apple and brings nothing to the table with regar…

Apple should pay. No questions about that.

But how much should they pay? In this special case of patents, Motorola is expected to charge Apple the same rates as other licensees. In fact, they have committed to do so.

But now, they are going back on that commitment and also trying to double dip.

FRAND (Fair, Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory) patent commitment is an essential part of standard setting process. If companies are allowed to abuse FRAND committed patents like this, there will be chaos. We'll go back to the digital dark ages when there were no standards or interoperability.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#257

Post by cooldeal »

mtgx wrote: post #231
raganesh wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are accusing her of bribery, that is a very serious allegation. Imagine if such a thing happens and is eventually exposed. What a scandal would it be. I don't think any large company, let alone Apple, would want to be involved in any such mess.

I don't know about this case, but I think ITC has been suspiciously anti-Google for the past few patent cases. In almost every single instance they've ruled in favor of Apple or Microsoft, and against Google.

Confirmation bias?

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/05/xbox-itc-motorola/

That's a big one.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#258

Post by jsz0 »

shawnee_ wrote: post #169

Something about Koh's overwhelming bias for Apple seems really suspicious. It's one thing to preeminently ban sales of product A for reason X, but to also ban sales of product B for reason Y where products A and B have the same parent, and where reasons X and Y are completely unrelated? Something is wrong with this picture. What else could be going on? Maybe I have a cynical view of humanity, but I spent a few minute…

What else could be going on?

Maybe Apple's case/patents are legally stronger than a lot of people are willing to admit?

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#259

Post by dspeyer »

briandear wrote: post #215
dspeyer wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But might it be seen by the average potential Apple employee? It's structured as "don't buy from apple", but it also covers "don't work for apple", which they actually need to fear.

That won't work either. A job with Apple is highly sought after. Even jobs in the retail stores get hundreds of applications. Engineers still flocked to Microsoft even during the "dark" days. I don't think a company that had an $89 stock price in 2008 and a $584 stock price now is going to have any trouble attracting top talent. A strong stock price and massive earnings == no problems recruiting. When it comes down t…

I'm not saying they won't get a flood of resumes for every opening.

But the best people, who know they can get a position at any major tech company, will be weighing Apple against the likes of Google, Facebook and Amazon. It's possible that Apple has an edge over those in money/environment/opportunity, but it isn't a clear or solid one. The thought of being looked down on by fellow nerds for working at a patent aggressor could turn the balance.

And building products with 98th percentile engineers instead of 99th percentile is a big deal. Look at Microsoft.

Re: #BoycottApple trending on Google plus due to Galaxy Nexus ban

#260

Post by cooldeal »

Terretta wrote: post #247
CrazedGeek wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to a specific case? From what I can tell, the first two major cases were Nokia v. Apple and Apple v. HTC, in October 2009 and March 2010, respectively (and Nokia's not really part of the current kerfuffle of suits).

Months ago I outlined the history with cases here in long comments. I'll look it up again and comment here later today or tomorrow.

If something needs long winded comments, I am skeptical. For example, did HTC do something to litigate with Apple that caused Apple to sue HTC? I don't see anything like that.

If you assert that Apple sued HTC because Nokia sued Apple first, that does not make any sense whatsoever. Nokia isn't even an Android OEM.

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