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The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

icelandmonitor.mbl.is

271–280 of 296 posts

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#271
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have definitely not used Windows for a hobby for 19 years I never said you did. In fact, I never said anything about you using Windows at all, yet twice now you seem to have taken what I wrote as though I did.

I did not take it as you saying that I did, both times I was trying to make the point that those people that you don't believe exist include me as one of them.

Fair enough. I guess I'm just incredibly skeptical of your claims. Certainly I can get you've never used Windows as your primary OS, but that's quite a different claim from never having used it, which is the specific claim I was saying some people make. And it strains incredulity to believe you've never clicked on any Twitter links because of how prevalent the platform is.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the question “how do we encourage digital exploration without causing phone addiction” is the defining question of our generation.

> the question “how do we encourage digital exploration without causing phone addiction” is the defining question of our generation One component seems to be not providing them with a networked general-purpose computer out of the gate.

That is how you wind up with new office workers who don't know how folders or a file system works.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be objecting to the entire idea of people en masse having preferences that screw up their own enjoyment? Cool, that's super easy to prove. Ignore dinners, go look at the science of addiction. I can link the Wikipedia page if you want, it's full of links to evidence. Also "most" versus "a lot" isn't pedantic. There's a ton of statements that are true of 5% of people but it would be ridiculous to suggest it…

> You seem to be objecting to the entire idea of people en masse having preferences that screw up their own enjoyment? No, I'm objecting to the idea that you think you know what people would enjoy more than they do themselves, for any amount of people barring maybe close friends and family. It's incredibly condescending. > Also "most" versus "a lot" isn't pedantic. It is when you already clarified it twice and it was…

> No, I'm objecting to the idea that you think you know what people would enjoy more than they do themselves, for any amount of people barring maybe close friends and family. It's incredibly condescending.

Are you calling me condescending, or wrong, or both? Both, it seems? But those are different arguments. Don't confuse the two.

When it comes to addiction, the evidence is clear that I am right.

In my opinion if it's both true and impersonal, then it's not condescending. And I'm being as impersonal and nonjudgemental as I can here. But if "condescending" is your only objection then good enough I made my point.

> It is when you already clarified it twice and it wasn't pertinent to the main point I was making, repeated above in this very comment.

When you ignore the clarification, I worry you didn't see/understand/internalize it. The levels of proof are very different, so that makes me say it again to make sure we're on the same page.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#274
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not take it as you saying that I did, both times I was trying to make the point that those people that you don't believe exist include me as one of them.

Fair enough. I guess I'm just incredibly skeptical of your claims. Certainly I can get you've never used Windows as your primary OS, but that's quite a different claim from never having used it, which is the specific claim I was saying some people make. And it strains incredulity to believe you've never clicked on any Twitter links because of how prevalent the platform is.

oh I did use windows as my primary OS, it was Windows 95/98/XP on desktops, which started my hatred of it, and then I was stuck on a very poor laptop and windows mistake edition for 3 months before I switched to Linux for good.

yes, I've clicked on Twitter links the same way I've clicked on ads, by accident.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to be objecting to the entire idea of people en masse having preferences that screw up their own enjoyment? No, I'm objecting to the idea that you think you know what people would enjoy more than they do themselves, for any amount of people barring maybe close friends and family. It's incredibly condescending. > Also "most" versus "a lot" isn't pedantic. It is when you already clarified it twice and it was…

> No, I'm objecting to the idea that you think you know what people would enjoy more than they do themselves, for any amount of people barring maybe close friends and family. It's incredibly condescending. Are you calling me condescending, or wrong, or both? Both, it seems? But those are different arguments. Don't confuse the two. When it comes to addiction, the evidence is clear that I am right. In my opinion if it'…

> Are you calling me condescending, or wrong, or both? Both, it seems? But those are different arguments. Don't confuse the two.

Even your reply here is condescending, good god.

I'm not confusing anything. You got it right the first time, I think yoru argument is wrong, AND it's condescending.

> When it comes to addiction, the evidence is clear that I am right.

The problem is you making the assumption that people wanting to use their phone at a restaurant are suffering from addition.

That's the claim you need to support.

> so that makes me say it again to make sure we're on the same page.

Yes, I'm sure that was the reason.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#276
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. I guess I'm just incredibly skeptical of your claims. Certainly I can get you've never used Windows as your primary OS, but that's quite a different claim from never having used it, which is the specific claim I was saying some people make. And it strains incredulity to believe you've never clicked on any Twitter links because of how prevalent the platform is.

oh I did use windows as my primary OS, it was Windows 95/98/XP on desktops, which started my hatred of it, and then I was stuck on a very poor laptop and windows mistake edition for 3 months before I switched to Linux for good. yes, I've clicked on Twitter links the same way I've clicked on ads, by accident.

> oh I did use windows as my primary OS, it was Windows 95/98/XP on desktops,

So you're definitely not in the amp of people who never claimed to use Windows, which is the group I was comparing you to.

> Yes, I've clicked on Twitter links the same way I've clicked on ads, by accident.

That's what I'm skeptical of. Twitter sucks, but sometimes it's literally the only place the source of a story is, like if Elon makes a newesworthy post or something. I'm not saying you had an account or anything, but literally never clicking on a link, hundreds of which have been submitted as HN stories alone, beggars belief.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#277
post #214
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonetheless I did it all the time as a kid and it was fine using a dictionary. Is it much easier on a phone? Absolutely, but then I also get caught up reading the etymology, looking up on Wikipedia the Greek roots of the word, ending up at some Greek wars' battle in 500BC and what's the current geopolitical situation of the region, how did they vote on the last Greek Parliamentary election, etc. For my curiosity it's…

outside of work, I read for entertainment about 70% of the time I'm not doing biological necessities. I don't see the problem with the scenario you've outlined.

I think you've missed what I meant... Read the parent and my response, not my response in a vacuum.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, I'm objecting to the idea that you think you know what people would enjoy more than they do themselves, for any amount of people barring maybe close friends and family. It's incredibly condescending. Are you calling me condescending, or wrong, or both? Both, it seems? But those are different arguments. Don't confuse the two. When it comes to addiction, the evidence is clear that I am right. In my opinion if it'…

> Are you calling me condescending, or wrong, or both? Both, it seems? But those are different arguments. Don't confuse the two. Even your reply here is condescending, good god. I'm not confusing anything. You got it right the first time, I think yoru argument is wrong, AND it's condescending. > When it comes to addiction, the evidence is clear that I am right. The problem is you making the assumption that people wan…

> Even your reply here is condescending, good god.

Because you keep phrasing things as if wrong and condescending are the same, and it makes it annoying to respond to your claims.

> The problem is you making the assumption that people wanting to use their phone at a restaurant are suffering from addition.

> That's the claim you need to support.

I don't need to cite phone studies when I can counter your main argument.

You made an extremely general argument that I'm wrong if I say any preferences a bunch of people have are making them unhappy. I made extra sure you were doubling down and making a claim so strong.

And addiction disproves it.

If you want to go back to just dinner, you need to make a new argument that isn't entirely based on whether you think I'm condescending. And at this point I don't have much patience or belief you'll actually listen to me.

If you do want to agree with me that yes lots of people have immediate preferences that make them unhappy after a few hours, but you think phones at dinner are an exception to that, then I guess we could talk about why you think that, and I'm open to hearing why.

But any argument that says people are always right about what they want? Nah.

I don't think I need to build a ground-up argument that only applies to phones. It's an instance of a more general problem: people are not always good at planning and impulses. If you object to the general argument, then I only need to disprove your objection.

> Yes, I'm sure that was the reason.

If you won't believe me then there's not much I can do, but it's true. I've had people ignore a critical part of my argument over and over. If someone misquotes me, I will point it out.

By the way, do you have a reason you kept misquoting my argument? I feel like you should have to defend that instead just attacking me for correcting you.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with your point is your making an unwarranted assumption about most people. It's no different from insisting someone would like a variation of something they have no interest if they would only try it . Or to put it in simpler terms, you seem to think you know better than "a lot" of people.

I mean, yes: this point is true. Usually that's how things are. It's not a matter of knowing better, it's a matter of people not considering X. If they don't think about X they wouldn't even know to change it or try something else. Truly, you don't know something until you try it. If you never try it you just don't know. At least for most things, some things are obvious. Also, there's arguments about phones being add…

> I mean, yes: this point is true. Usually that's how things are.

Strongly disagree.

> It's not a matter of knowing better, it's a matter of people not considering X.

You're making the same mistake the other fellow is; you're assuming the other people haven't considered x, when they likely have.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, yes: this point is true. Usually that's how things are. It's not a matter of knowing better, it's a matter of people not considering X. If they don't think about X they wouldn't even know to change it or try something else. Truly, you don't know something until you try it. If you never try it you just don't know. At least for most things, some things are obvious. Also, there's arguments about phones being add…

> I mean, yes: this point is true. Usually that's how things are. Strongly disagree. > It's not a matter of knowing better, it's a matter of people not considering X. You're making the same mistake the other fellow is; you're assuming the other people haven't considered x, when they likely have.

Do you think "considering" is enough to reach a correct conclusion?

I'm not making the mistake of thinking they didn't consider it. I think every human is bad at considering.

But it's also true that a lot of them really haven't considered it.

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