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Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

theguardian.com

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Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#181

Post by lazide »

WalterBright wrote: post #180
lazide wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, it would be like insisting the moon was made of cheese and in low earth orbit - and somehow getting someone to sponsor your (literal moonshot) - and then somehow reaching it in it’s real place, finding out it was made of gold instead, and then bringing a ton back. Which single-handedly started a space race which led to colonizing the moon (and, uh, mostly exterminating the indigenous population which was totally…

Many otherwise intelligent people hold on to an idiotic idea, especially when it's to their advantage to hold on to it. In fact, probably all of us do this.

Notably, he would have died out there if it hadn’t, somehow, worked out.

Truth really is stranger than fiction.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#183

Post by wslh »

lazide wrote: post #90
wslh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Jewish law, almost anyone can convert to Judaism.

It is really not an easy or straightforward process. Of the major world religions, it’s probably the hardest to convert into. Being born into it is the most common and ‘supported’ way.

Converting to Judaism can be easier than many people assume, sometimes even simpler than earning a high school degree. It's important to note that Judaism is not a proselytizing religion, meaning it doesn't actively seek to convert others. Instead, conversion is a deeply personal choice, and those who pursue it are welcomed after a meaningful process.

Judaism is actually one of the major world religions, though it's much smaller in terms of population compared to Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism [1]. Despite its smaller numbers, it has had a significant influence on Western culture, ethics, and religious thought, particularly as the foundation for both Christianity and Islam.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#184

Post by Affric »

lazide wrote: post #178
WalterBright wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt he was an idiot. But his thinking was constrained by what was known at the time and what was commonly thought to be true. Our modern thinking is also constrained by similar misjudgments, we just like to think we're smarter than that. 500 years hence, people will laugh at our idiocy.

Eh, it would be like insisting the moon was made of cheese and in low earth orbit - and somehow getting someone to sponsor your (literal moonshot) - and then somehow reaching it in it’s real place, finding out it was made of gold instead, and then bringing a ton back. Which single-handedly started a space race which led to colonizing the moon (and, uh, mostly exterminating the indigenous population which was totally…

Yes! I started typing up a moon comparison and half way through gave up because it just sounded so insane. Thanks for this.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#185

Post by netdevnet »

amiga386 wrote: post #133
juunpp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a Jew discovering the Americas benefit the Spanish regime when the Spanish Catholic monarchy precisely kicked all Jews and Muslims from the peninsula with their ill-named "reconquista"? If this turns out to be true, then it'd be rather embarrassing. Presumably this Lorente has more evidence he hasn't put on display, so it isn't completely baseless either. It's certainly sketchy and not very scientific, thoug…

> I also don't understand why people get a boner with Columbus. He is primarily of interest because Italian-Americans want a feeling of pride and so celebrate "one of their own", the Genovese Columbus. And America is very big and important, so whatever it cares about, a lot of other people care about. If you were Canadian instead, you'd probably be genned up on John Cabot (also Genovese) and Newfoundland and CODFISH!…

> which is where most of the European Americans (and European Canadians) ultimately come from

Just a minor correction. People seem to miss it so often not sure why.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#186

Post by SapporoChris »

Affric wrote: post #169
WalterBright wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt he was an idiot. But his thinking was constrained by what was known at the time and what was commonly thought to be true. Our modern thinking is also constrained by similar misjudgments, we just like to think we're smarter than that. 500 years hence, people will laugh at our idiocy.

Other people brought the receipts. He fully just wishfully thought the earth was smaller. He continued to refused he hadn’t landed in the indies for the rest of his life. Idiot was a strong word. But not as brief.

Actually, "On the other hand, in a document in the Book of Privileges (1502), Columbus refers to the New World as the Indias Occidentales ('West Indies'), which he says "were unknown to all the world".[284]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus#Legacy

So, it seems at some points he made claims he had a route to the orient and later he referred to it as 'West Indies'. Perhaps he knew the truth all along but had reasons to mislead.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#187

Post by [deleted] »

chipdart wrote: post #35

From the article: > “Unfortunately, from a scientific point of view, we can’t really evaluate what was in the documentary because they offered no data from the analysis whatsoever,” Antonio Alonso, a geneticist and former director of Spain’s National Institute of Toxicology and Forensic Sciences told El País. So, baseless speculation used by the Spanish regime to claim Christopher Columbus as Spanish during the Spani…

[deleted]

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#189

Post by Affric »

ywvcbk wrote: post #156
nroets wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also note that around the same time other European expeditions were making similar discoveries: 2 years before Columbus, Dias discovered the Cape of Good Hope and a decade later Da Gama braved 10,000 km of open ocean and discovered a sea route to India. Discover of the West Indies was imminent. Columbus only won because he took an irrational gamble.

The Portuguese were doing the rational thing and taking the much rational and safer option. Was anyone really going west before Columbus? Of course I assume the Portuguese might have discovered Brazil eventually anyway because of the ocean currents

Yeah the Portuguese keeping Brasil secret is seductive conspiracy theory.

I think that America being there at all is super hindsight-y. A priori there were no states in America that had made contact with the people’s across Eurasia and Africa. There were the Vikings, and some northern nomads.

The Pacific is huge. So big that you can’t fit it all in one hemisphere. We have had long periods with single supercontinents and no other major landmasses.

Sailing west into the Atlantic as a European was a massive gamble. Matched only by the navigators of the South Pacific, and even then they were far more competent navigators of open ocean and had techniques that Columbus didn’t have. He just had heaps of money, some great boats, and huge will.

Re: Christopher Columbus may have been Spanish and Jewish, documentary says

#190

Post by amanaplanacanal »

dumbo-octopus wrote: post #146
danans wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jewish DNA is that which has descended from Abraham, through Isaac, to Jacob and the Jewish nation. Gravity is an attraction between masses. These things exist – regardless of your machines’ proclivities. Including the term "DNA" in that statement is an anachronism. Cultural identification isn't a physical law like gravity, regardless of how aggressively or emphatically that may be stated. That doesn't make it unim…

Are you specifically claiming that a common ancestor does not exist, or that genetic information does not spread to offspring?

There is no common ancestor. Abraham is a mythological character.
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