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How long til we're all on Ozempic?

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Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#931

Post by borski »

cromka wrote: post #859
l2silver wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people feel cheated when medication allows others to "effortlessly" join this social club, and then become vile and hateful in response. I don't think this is just about a social club. Battling weight loss and habits is foundational to the human experience from the most recent centuries. Be it drugs, or anything else really that changes the nature of these challenges, people are going to feel discomfort becaus…

The idea is this drug kick starts people to form new habits going forward. As witnessed by other commenters I. This thread as well.

Precisely. It doesn’t do the work for you.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#932

Post by sensanaty »

rootusrootus wrote: post #656
sensanaty wrote: post #595

[flagged]

I don't like processed foods and sugar in anything more than minimal quantities makes me ill. But I still get too many calories, at least as evidenced by my waistline. Are you sure the insanity isn't the assumption that it's just insufficient willpower or poor habits?

Have you tried actually counting calories? Because most people aren't really aware of the caloric contents of the foods they eat, and when they start counting calories it can be pretty shocking to see the realities. Especially if we're talking carbs like rice, bread, pasta etc., people tend to really underestimate the calories involved there.

A big shocker for many people is that 30g of peanuts is roughly ~100-130kcal, for example, which is maybe a ~handful of nuts.

A large portion of losing weight really does come down to CI/CO. There's a reason the common adage of "the waistline is molded in the kitchen, not the gym" exists. It's good to supplement a diet with exercise for various reasons, big one of them being reduction in muscle mass and bone density that accompanies weight loss, but if your goal is simply to lose a bit of weight, then decreasing your calories is the most reliable way of achieving it.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#933

Post by borski »

jajko wrote: post #838
mrshadowgoose wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do we find it acceptable to help people who struggle with alcohol abuse, or nicotine addiction, or opioid addiction, but not to help people who struggle with food abuse? "Getting fit and staying fit" is a form of social capital, because it's extremely hard and only within reach of a small portion of the population. "Being fit" is strongly aligned with "being attractive" which confers all sorts of cross-cutting…

This is funny how black & white some folks here want the world to be painted if it suits them. You know by far the biggest benefit of doing hard workouts or doing extreme sports? Its not muscle mass nor how much they lift. Its about how it changes your personality, resilience to mental or physical suffering and ease of overcoming it. You know, hardest part of doing anything is winning the mental resistance game and j…

That’s cute. You know nothing about me, but assume I’m not resilient.

I have achieved much, largely due to my resilience. It would be very difficult to argue, after growing up very impoverished and getting to where I am today, that I am not resilient.

I played sports, lots. I competed in martial arts. Resilience isn’t my issue.

But thanks for telling me I have a moral problem I don’t have, instead of perhaps considering that what people are telling you might be the truth.

You don’t always know better, even if it flies in the face of what it is you do know.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#934

Post by r3d0c »

rootusrootus wrote: post #549
paulmist wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a realistic path to this? Being from Europe I visited US last year and was horrified at the quality of your food. You see a lot of documentaries/youtube videos/etc... discussing the problem, but how do you even go about this?

> Being from Europe Why is the quality of food in Europe so much worse than southeast Asia? Because you guys are way, way, way fatter than e.g. the Japanese. Back on topic -- we have excellent food in the US, but regulations allow for highly processed crap to be sold too. Pretty sure most of the crappy processed foods are easily available in Europe, too.

lack of regulations* allow, and no not exactly;

eu and canada have stringent laws on advertising to children, and laws on nutrition and additives to their products

even things like bread in the US have an insane amount of sugar

but the other reason is suburban/car culture & zoning, which means more hypermarkets and shopping not every few days for fresh food but every week or two for more processed food that lasts longer because going to the store is a bigger PITA than a quick 5 min walk to the neighborhood stores; which also means mroe walking rather than driving, another area of calorie burning and lean muscle maintenance which maintains high metab

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#935

Post by borski »

ak_111 wrote: post #927
keybored wrote: post #888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commenter: This drug helped me with weight loss. Commenter 2: Kodus to you. Let me just discount your anecdote as being unlucky and keep my current belief. But again, kudos. HN threads on weightloss are an utter waste of time.

This is quite snarky. I was giving kudos because the commentator first exhausted all the lifestyle options that extremely often work in reducing obesity to ensure their issue is more than just lifestyle choice then finally taking the drug, rather than short circuiting the process. This is sensible policy in deciding to take any drug for the rest of your life for a chronic illness. In other words I was giving kudos th…

It’s your assumption that 90%+ of people don’t do this that is the issue.

People seem to think that once these drugs became popular, suddenly obese people around the world awoke from a deep slumber, like zombies, and decided to see a doctor for the first time in their lives about their weight.

Please. These people are walking into doctor’s office having given up hope because most of them have, to one extent or another, tried everything.

Our society does not make it pleasant to be obese, no matter how you feel about body positivity or anything else.

The implication that obese people have never considered or tried eating less, working out more, etc., is in and of itself the problem. It implies laziness and imbues negative morality, when the reality is that most people who are obese know it, hate it, and have tried most of their lives to overcome it, unsuccessfully.

So now that there’s a medication that can help kickstart their creation of new habits for the first time in their lives, I don’t see how that is a bad thing.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#936

Post by eli_gottlieb »

cthalupa wrote: post #866
seer wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very American way of thinking about it - not invented here vibes all over. Of course people don’t choose to be obese, but the culture and environment inevitably pushes you to it. A proof of that is that there are places in the world, with similar genes, that don’t have the same problem in the degree that US does. I don’t think it is a personal failing, more a collective one - the society itself has chosen a…

Obesity is rising rapidly over much of the developed world, both in Europe and Asia, on a trajectory fairly similar to the historical trajectory of it in the US. Obesity in adult men in North Korea more than doubled between 2009 and 2019. The UK is already up to 26% obesity. 36% of adults in Mexico are obese. America is an unfortunate pioneer in obesity, but it is not even remotely unique to America. > It is still we…

> Obesity in adult men in North Korea more than doubled between 2009 and 2019.

Ok, someone needs to explain how thoroughly non-Western, undeveloped countries, more known for starvation and malnutrition than overabundance of food, are developing an obesity problem!

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#937

Post by jlawson »

jncfhnb wrote: post #266
gcr wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand this perspective. You're looking at it with healthy eyes. But for fat people, the calculus looks different. A decision to take semaglutides is a decision between the long-term negative effects of obesity *now*, or the possibility of long-term negative effects *later.* Anecdotally, trans people have a similar calculus. Going unmedicated/unsupported brings significant mental health risk now [1], wherea…

I was curious and a bit skeptical that sex change operations materially affected suicide rates for trans people but available papers tended to find significant effect sizes of about 50% reduction

The data is poor quality. It's not like you can randomize who gets a sex change operation. And there are major issues with even knowing who to count when people can just decide they're not trans any more. All the research on this is riven with such unhandled problems.

The research is also highly motivated. A researcher who found that sex change operations were harmful would be targeted for endless harassment by gender activists, if they could get published at all.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#938

Post by borski »

hirvi74 wrote: post #778
dahart wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1/5 of the population suddenly increases output I’ve heard studies show Adderall doesn’t help people without ADHD… googling now seems to confirm. Apparently lots of people, especially college kids, take it thinking it will help, but it actually can slow them down.

My understanding is the amph. works the same in everyone - minus the edge cases. The main difference is that the magnitude is greater in people with ADHD than those without. A reduction in hyperactivity, for example, is not really apparent in people that are not overtly hyperactive to begin with. Beside, ADHD is kind of a nebulous label for a lot of symptoms. Having ADHD vs. not having ADHD is not exactly binary.

That is not true. Vyvanse, caffeine, etc., helps my brain calm down and focus. I don’t get hyper. In fact, if I have too much caffeine, I start yawning.

My wife, who does not have ADHD (at all), gets hyper from stimulants.

That’s the difference.

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#939

Post by [deleted] »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #858
coffeebeqn wrote: post #825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's probably half the portion size you'd get in the US. A lot of the sides in your average US restaurant is easily 1000kcal on its own

That's insane. It's also not just about calories. The amount of corn syrups used in drinks is crazy too. Your body will just spike your glucose and dump it to fat. It amazes me that Americans head scratch over their obesity epidemic then reach for a product to solve the issues their food industry and culture made for them.

[deleted]

Re: How long til we're all on Ozempic?

#940

Post by rasz »

farceSpherule wrote: post #237

A lot of people fail to realize that eating healthy and exercising is not enough for a lot of people who fight with their weight their entire lives. Ozempic and Wegovy are game changes and have real, tangible health benefits. One person told me, "No matter how much I eat or exercise, I have been 'hungry' my entire life. That ended when I started taking these drugs."

It is enough, but there are people who dont have metal fortitude to eat healthy and just the right amount.
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