On 17th century "cocaine" • Hacker News Board

Re: On 17th century "cocaine"

#101

Post by nicoburns » Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 1:24 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #81

nicoburns wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make this analogous, the words for "alcohol" and "vodka" would have to be the same. The OP is arguing that when people say "doing cocaine" they are generally referring to the high-strength powdered form, not the underlying chemical in general. And that if we interpret the sentence like that (which we should if that's how it's generally understood) then it is not true that people were doing cocaine in the 17th cent…

Random tangent: now I’m curious if there are any languages where the word for alcohol and vodka (or whatever is locally the most common spirit) is the same. Seems plausible that there would be.

The word vodka is apparently derived from the Slavic word for water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodka#Etymology

Re: On 17th century "cocaine"

#102

Post by golergka » Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 1:24 PM UTC

sevensor wrote: post #21

Not the subject of the article, but in the vein (so to speak) of 19th century industrial refinement processes, gin and other cheap spirits were also a really big deal, and a really big problem at the time. The temperance movement didn’t come out of nowhere. I think it’s an interesting parallel between fermented beverages and coca tea on the one hand, and cocaine and hard liquor on the other.

People somehow forgot the ether epidemic in some parts of Europe at the turn of the 20th century.

Re: On 17th century "cocaine"

#103

Post by cynicalpeace » Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 1:30 PM UTC

Coca-Cola still uses coca leaves in the production of its drink.

The Stepan Company plant in New Jersey is the only place in the USA authorized to import coca.

"Equality before the law" is unfortunately a farce in this country, if you didn't already know.

Re: On 17th century "cocaine"

#104

Post by tombert » Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 1:34 PM UTC

cynicalpeace wrote: post #103

Coca-Cola still uses coca leaves in the production of its drink. The Stepan Company plant in New Jersey is the only place in the USA authorized to import coca. "Equality before the law" is unfortunately a farce in this country, if you didn't already know.

> Coca-Cola still uses coca leaves in the production of its drink.

Is this actually true? A quick search gives me a lot of sources like "Natural News" and similarly dubious sources. What do they actually use the Coca leaves for?

Re: On 17th century "cocaine"

#105

Post by School-Cotton » Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 1:34 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #101

School-Cotton wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random tangent: now I’m curious if there are any languages where the word for alcohol and vodka (or whatever is locally the most common spirit) is the same. Seems plausible that there would be.

The word vodka is apparently derived from the Slavic word for water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodka#Etymology

The word "whisky" is derived from the Scottish Gaelic word for "water", too. (Maybe that's what your sibling comment is referring to?)

Re: On 17th century "cocaine"

#106

Post by cynicalpeace » Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 1:36 PM UTC

tombert wrote: post #104

cynicalpeace wrote: post #103

Coca-Cola still uses coca leaves in the production of its drink. The Stepan Company plant in New Jersey is the only place in the USA authorized to import coca. "Equality before the law" is unfortunately a farce in this country, if you didn't already know.

> Coca-Cola still uses coca leaves in the production of its drink. Is this actually true? A quick search gives me a lot of sources like "Natural News" and similarly dubious sources. What do they actually use the Coca leaves for?

It is 100% true. It seems a DEA source would convince you: https://museum.dea.gov/exhibits/online-exhibits/cannabis-coc....

"In the late 1800s cocaine was used as a primary ingredient for flavor in Coca-Cola. In the early 1900s cocaine in its crude form was removed. Today the extract of the coca leaves, a de-cocainized version, is manufactured in the United States and used in the flavoring for Coca-Cola."

Re: On 17th century "cocaine"

#107

Post by greenavocado » Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 1:36 PM UTC

tombert wrote: post #104

cynicalpeace wrote: post #103

Coca-Cola still uses coca leaves in the production of its drink. The Stepan Company plant in New Jersey is the only place in the USA authorized to import coca. "Equality before the law" is unfortunately a farce in this country, if you didn't already know.

> Coca-Cola still uses coca leaves in the production of its drink. Is this actually true? A quick search gives me a lot of sources like "Natural News" and similarly dubious sources. What do they actually use the Coca leaves for?

https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2024-06177.pdf

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

Drug Enforcement Administration

[Docket No. DEA-1335]

Importer of Controlled Substances Application: Stepan Company

Re: On 17th century "cocaine"

#108

Post by tombert » Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 1:37 PM UTC

cynicalpeace wrote: post #106

tombert wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coca-Cola still uses coca leaves in the production of its drink. Is this actually true? A quick search gives me a lot of sources like "Natural News" and similarly dubious sources. What do they actually use the Coca leaves for?

It is 100% true. It seems a DEA source would convince you: https://museum.dea.gov/exhibits/online-exhibits/cannabis-coc... . "In the late 1800s cocaine was used as a primary ingredient for flavor in Coca-Cola. In the early 1900s cocaine in its crude form was removed. Today the extract of the coca leaves, a de-cocainized version, is manufactured in the United States and used in the flavoring for Coca-Cola."

Fair enough!

Re: On 17th century "cocaine"

#109

Post by Mtinie » Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 1:51 PM UTC

xnorswap wrote: post #88

Mtinie wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Cocaine Does the molecule C17H21NO4 exist in both the raw, dried leaves of the coca plant, and a powdered, refined extract from the same plant?

https://nibblestew.blogspot.com/2020/04/your-statement-is-10...

Perfect response. I'm chuckling, so thank you.

What's also humorous to me is this entire discussion is centered around vernacular usage of a word versus the scientific definition. Cocaine is cocaine, but "cocaine" means different things to some people and not to others.

Re: On 17th century "cocaine"

#110

Post by fullspectrumdev » Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 1:58 PM UTC

sva_ wrote: post #71

herbst wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also this one from Italy: https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca_Buton (Which is a actually buyable product that appearantly is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, coke leaf import company in europe. It's a lovely liqueur)

You can buy coca tea in headshops in Netherlands as well.

Really? Didn’t realise it was still available.

I remember one of the online smartshops used to sell it, it was actually rather pleasant as a caffeine alternative.