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Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

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Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#201

Post by lesuorac »

mtndew4brkfst wrote: post #169
threeseed wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more that WP Engine is successful and hasn’t meaningfully contributed back to the Wordpress project. Which I can sympathise with. But this isn’t what open source is about both legally and morally. And there are better ways to achieve this goal than by making a mockery of the Wordpress foundation and harming end users.

Hearsay tells me they maintain a small fleet of Wordpress plugins, sponsor conferences, etc. Are those not meaningful contributions to the ecosystem?

No you don't understand!

Matt painstakingly forked b2 into wordpress and now WPE is freloading while Matt donates a whooping 0% of his revenue to b2 while WPE doesn't. /s

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#202

Post by pembrook »

manuelmoreale wrote: post #194
pembrook wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No database required, but you’re still tied to being a “wonder-host” for Kirby. I’ve used it before, and many clients sites are now dead because their web host didn’t want to support old PHP versions anymore. Any cloud-based CMS doesn’t have that problem. That, plus, Kirby just isn’t robust enough to compare to something like Webflow.

I’m not entirely sure why you’re comparing Kirby to Webflow. They’re completely different tools built with completely different target audiences in mind. Also “many clients sites are now dead because their web host didn’t want to support old PHP versions anymore” Isn’t the solution to that as simple as upgrading your CMS?

The comment I was responding to was criticizing the idea of having to provide hosting support for other CMS's.

That fact that you constantly have to upgrade Kirby and pay new licensing fees (and bill your customers for this) because no web host wants to support an old version of PHP...betrays the idea that Kirby is a way out of this. Sure it doesn't have a database to hassle with like Wordpress so it's better in that regard. But it's still objectively worse than any cloud platform.

If you're on a cloud subscription platform you're completely hands off (no upgrades necessary) and the client now has permanent support from said subscription they're paying for. It's fundamentally a better model than dumping websites on clients and letting them slowly rot away while they forget how to do anything with them.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#203

Post by [deleted] »

threeseed wrote: post #120
dylan604 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that essentially what caused this kerfuffle? Someone forked it and the original guy got upset about the how/why of the fork?

It’s more that WP Engine is successful and hasn’t meaningfully contributed back to the Wordpress project. Which I can sympathise with. But this isn’t what open source is about both legally and morally. And there are better ways to achieve this goal than by making a mockery of the Wordpress foundation and harming end users.

[deleted]

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#204

Post by tzs »

wkat4242 wrote: post #152
inlined wrote: post #130

Do you want antitrust investigations? Because this is how you get antitrust investigations. Wordpress is nearly half of the Internet. There’s a pretty compelling argument that Matt is using his market power to prevent competition in violation of the Sherman act.

Nearly half isn't enough to trigger antitrust. Especially because that nearly half is only mom and pop shops and not the ones doing the real big business. So I wouldn't be too worried about that.

It probably depends on which part of the Sherman act we are talking about.

Section 2, which covers "Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce [...]" has been found by courts, I believe, to require 50% market share (or sometimes more) to apply.

But section 1, which applies to "Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce [...]", does not as far as I've been able to tell have any market size threshold.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#205

Post by rob »

doublerabbit wrote: post #108
pembrook wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a million standalone CMS’s (headless) and standalone site builders (ranging from pure technical to no-code to no-design) and even sitebuilders with robust CMS’s attached these days (eg. Webflow). There’s zero reason to use Wordpress in 2024 imo.

> There’s zero reason to use Wordpress IMO in 2024. Many folk, companies don't have the resources nor skillset to set up a LAMP equivalent for such. If you want to be the next wonder-host for $CMS be my guest. I recommend Kirby. No database required and only uses text files for its backend. https://getkirby.com/

So does Statamic, based on Laravel.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#206

Post by jeanlucas »

pacifika wrote: post #30
alwa wrote: post #8

Is there really nobody in the Wordpress.org organization who can provide a check on this kind of behavior? Or do they really collectively share this Matt character’s attitude toward professionalism?

It’s his personal website

Yeah, the WordPress foundation is just a façade to pay less taxes. If it were a true Foundation worried about its users Matt wouldn't do so much shit

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#207

Post by Sander_Marechal »

lioeters wrote: post #166
johnklos wrote: post #117

The title literally made me laugh out loud. What drama! What intrigue! Can't wait to see what happens next. Honestly, I have no horse in the race, so to speak. I think the people responsible for Wordpress code still suck because they still, in 2024, want the software itself to be able to write to where the software itself lives and runs, which is just bananas. It violates the first two rules of anything and everythin…

Indeed it's completely insane that any plugin can create a file in the site folder, and a public URL will execute it. And a site can have a dozen (or dozens in some cases) of plugins from various authors. It's a security nightmare, and I don't know of any (modern) language that allows such a situation other than PHP.

That has absolutely zero to do with PHP itself and everything with the abysmal state of Wordpress code.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#208

Post by FireBeyond »

jart wrote: post #180
FireBeyond wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is absolutely and factually incorrect. Several of the most popular plugins are maintained by WPEngine. WPEngine donates/sponsors hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to WordPress community events. Indeed, the convention where Matt went "nuclear" was sponsored by WPE to the tune of $75,000 (and despite these all being supposedly independent entities, somehow WPE was banned from attending by the Foundation. No…

I bet you those are sales / networking events and a WordPress software developer wasn't invited to a single one.

You'd be entirely wrong, then. That event was WordCamp, "the largest annual gathering in the U.S. of WordPress users", an event started by Matt Mullenweg:

> WordCamps come in all different flavors, based on the local communities that produce them, but in general, WordCamps include sessions on how to use WordPress more effectively, beginning plugin and theme development, advanced techniques, security, etc. To get an idea of the types of sessions typically seen at WordCamps, check out the WordCamp channel at WordPress.tv.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#209

Post by mthoms »

belorn wrote: post #199
bigiain wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WPEngine do have their own mirrors. This is what a test theme upgrade this morning tells me: Downloading update from https://theme-updates.wpengine.com/twentysixteen/twentysixte... The risk I need to address is what's stopping Matt denying WPE access to that place where all the plugins and themes are published? Where does plugin-updates.wpengine.com get its content from, and how soon is Matt gonna block that? And an…

As a customer and user of WPEngine, what role do you see wordpress in that relationship? Generally when I buy things I try to take some consideration of the sub-contractors and suppliers to the supplier of service, but I am aware that I do not have a direct relationship with them. I doubt the courts will demand that WordPress foundation must provide servers and bandwidth indefinite and free of charge to anyone, espec…

"The point of the foundation is to ensure free access, in perpetuity, to the software projects we support" https://wordpressfoundation.org

That's not only on their website, it's also stated in their 501c3 filings with the IRS.

Another thing to note is that "wordpress.org" is hardcoded into several places in the source code, and Matt has outright refused to make it more directly configurable.

There are even more issues involved, so while your point is sound, the reality of the situation is pretty complicated.

Re: Wordpress.org Login: "I am not affiliated with WP Engine in any way"

#210

Post by lolc »

Sander_Marechal wrote: post #207
lioeters wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed it's completely insane that any plugin can create a file in the site folder, and a public URL will execute it. And a site can have a dozen (or dozens in some cases) of plugins from various authors. It's a security nightmare, and I don't know of any (modern) language that allows such a situation other than PHP.

That has absolutely zero to do with PHP itself and everything with the abysmal state of Wordpress code.

Wordpress probably still enforces magic quotes which made me bail the hell out when I looked into it ten years ago.
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