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FTX creditors will make money on bankruptcy

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Re: FTX creditors will make money on bankruptcy

#121

Post by sobellian »

KoolKat23 wrote: post #120
sobellian wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During sentencing, SBF attempted to argue that creditors had experienced "zero harm" as even then it was apparent FTX would be able to pay them back. John Ray himself rebutted that argument: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66631292/415/united-sta... . > And even taking into account the potential for achieving anticipated recovery levels, which is by no means assured, customers still will never be in the same pos…

I'm not arguing that, it doesn't change the fact that a crime occured. I'm just saying the title is not misleading. They mentioned it is bankrupt and by definition creditor rights are curtailed.

To the common man, "made money" and "experienced economic harm" would contradict each other. In that way the title misleads.

Re: FTX creditors will make money on bankruptcy

#122

Post by s1artibartfast »

Scoundreller wrote: post #117
s1artibartfast wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to be overpaying. It was a win win. The way I read it the county got more money this way than if they held it. They they sold the stake ultimately worth 17 million, but they got their rights back, which they resold for 16 million. As long as they sold their stake for 1 million or more, they are in the green.

The rights were back to them at the time of default. It was independent of the claim sale. (They won on the reselling of the naming rights too by leasing them out for more per year than ftx)

Thanks for the clarification. I thought the two were tied

Re: FTX creditors will make money on bankruptcy

#123

Post by olalonde »

garaetjjte wrote: post #116
olalonde wrote: post #64

Imagine spending 25 years in federal prison knowing you might have avoided it if only you had not filed for bankruptcy.

No, it only works because of magic of bankruptcy law converting liabilities to dollar value at the time of filling.

Ah I see, so they didn't recover the actual crypto that was owed, just the estimated USD value at the moment of bankruptcy? By the way, I didn't mean to imply SBF wasn't guilty, simply that he might have been able to cover up the fraud if he had been given a bit more time.

Re: FTX creditors will make money on bankruptcy

#124

Post by olalonde »

paulpauper wrote: post #99
immibis wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wouldn't help because it would still not have enough Bitcoins to pay its customers.

there are hundreds of exchanges. how many of them are fully collateralized? doubt all of them are.

Those that aren't fully collateralized are committing fraud.

Re: FTX creditors will make money on bankruptcy

#125

Post by arduanika »

marcuskane2 wrote: post #114
arduanika wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely a pattern, but I don't want to assume motive. I doubt SBF will get his retrial, but still, it's good PR for a lot of people -- for Effective Altruism, for Stanford, for Sequoia -- whose reputations took a hit here. It's even good PR for the bankruptcy team to say that they got full restitution. And for the journalists, of course, it's a headline that really pops. But sitting here, we can't really k…

Or, it's just kinda and interesting story on it's own, no crazy conspiracy theories needed? When Bernie Madoff or Enron or any of the other major headline-grabbing frauds fell apart, the victims generally got back almost nothing. The fact that FTX is returning all of the user's money, plus interest, is quite unique and newsworthy.

Sure. As I wrote in my other comment,

"That said, the repayments do exceed expectations. That is newsworthy. I just wish they could report that news factually."

So to flip it back on you: repaying the lowball marks, but not the actual full stolen value, is an interesting story on its own. No lies and exaggerations from the media are needed.

Also, where you write:

> "The fact that FTX is returning all of the user's money..."

No. This is not a "fact". This is a lie. You have been misinformed. That's my whole point. Do not call it a fact.

Re: FTX creditors will make money on bankruptcy

#126

Post by darepublic »

FreeTrade wrote: post #36
eftychis wrote: post #17

The statement is misleading. People are making 18% interest on the value of Bitcoin et al. at the value of 2022, which is less than $20k. Now that is $60k, back to the value levels of 2021. Thus, the only reason there is interest is that the cryptocurrencies found gained back their value, and the bankruptcy court gets to consider the values when the bankruptcy started in 2022, not current/before 2022 values.

I'm seeing a pattern of misleading headlines wrt this. My guess is that it is PR at work to convince public that FTX was a victimless crime - this is to help SBF avoid his full sentence.

I think it has to do with the incredible and increasing amounts of competition for people's attention. And of course human nature in what titles people click on.

Re: FTX creditors will make money on bankruptcy

#127

Post by KoolKat23 »

sobellian wrote: post #121
KoolKat23 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing that, it doesn't change the fact that a crime occured. I'm just saying the title is not misleading. They mentioned it is bankrupt and by definition creditor rights are curtailed.

To the common man, "made money" and "experienced economic harm" would contradict each other. In that way the title misleads.

They mentioned it is bankrupt and by definition creditor rights are curtailed.

Re: FTX creditors will make money on bankruptcy

#128

Post by immibis »

olalonde wrote: post #124
paulpauper wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are hundreds of exchanges. how many of them are fully collateralized? doubt all of them are.

Those that aren't fully collateralized are committing fraud.

Or they are banks.

Fun fact: I got a permanent ban from the r/cryptocurrency discord for saying exactly this.

Re: FTX creditors will make money on bankruptcy

#129

Post by yieldcrv »

moomin wrote: post #70
eftychis wrote: post #17

The statement is misleading. People are making 18% interest on the value of Bitcoin et al. at the value of 2022, which is less than $20k. Now that is $60k, back to the value levels of 2021. Thus, the only reason there is interest is that the cryptocurrencies found gained back their value, and the bankruptcy court gets to consider the values when the bankruptcy started in 2022, not current/before 2022 values.

In yet another “crypto is just speed-running regular finance” moment, they ran the same crock about _Nick Leeson_. And that was a far from victimless crime as well.

or crypto is regular finance

its just a bankruptcy case being handled well, and far faster because of the blockchain records showing where things went.

Re: FTX creditors will make money on bankruptcy

#130

Post by yieldcrv »

kelnos wrote: post #106
paulpauper wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

blame CZ. had he not triggered the run on FTX assets by making those tweets, likely FTX had enough assets to survive until Bitcoin began its rebound.

I see a disturbing trend in your posts: you seem to want to place the blame anywhere but on SBF's shoulders, where it rightfully belongs. Exchanges shouldn't be like banks. FTX should have had customer assets on hand to return, no matter what. That's how regulated exchanges are supposed to work. But this is crypto-land, where nobody does the right thing.

although I agree because SBF shouldn't have been running the exchange like this at all

the truth is that in the US none of this gets prosecuted while people are making money, or being reimbursed as a remedy at the company's own volition.

very few exceptions, you basically have to piss off a completely different industry, like bragging about raising drug prices instead of silently like everyone else, for prosecutors to search for improper accounting to nail you with.

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