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Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

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Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#181
post #72
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example on SGI boxes you had "hardware raid" with cache, which essentially is a sort of embedded computer with it's own memory. That cache had a battery backup so that if the machine had a crash or sudden power loss the hardware raid would live on long enough to finish its writes. SGI had tight control over the type of hardware you could use and it was usually good quality stuff. Most of the SGI machine I've us…

Yep. The Octanes and the Challenge servers we used at work didn't have hardware raid, and, contrary to grandparent we did have regular issues on SGI with XFS (loss of data after power cycling, always), while we never had that on Linux, which surprised me. After all, it was so easily reproduced (on SGI): Write regularly to a file, power cycle, file empty afterwards. Did that on Linux, everything fine. Every time. Neve…

Sounds fair enough. I never used SGI personally. I was just repeating what I read while dealing with XFS issues back in the day.

Bad old days.

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kubernetes has unquestionably been a game changer. If you look at most enterprises today you will see it deployed everywhere. And most of the complexity has been abstracted away by the cloud providers so all you're left with is a system that can handle all manner of different applications and deployment scenarios in a consistent way.

> Kubernetes has unquestionably been a game changer. > If you look at most enterprises today you will see it deployed everywhere. This doesn't mean it's a game changer. It just means it has a big cargo-cult and people keep using it regardless of whether they need it. > most of the complexity has been abstracted away by the cloud providers The abstractions that people add make things more complex, not less. Unless of…

Kubernetes is one of those things that are only as complicated as you want it to be.

The problem with Kubernetes and complexity is that because it simplifies a lot of things that are a huge PITA to accomplish on a "homemade" server/container setup is that there are a huge number of products and things you can run on kubernetes to "do stuff".

And it is hard for a lot of people and organizations to resist the "oh shiny" aspect. Stuff like "Oh, look I can do network policies and service meshes!" or "Lets create this really complicated and big thing so we can configure all our AWS infrastructure with kubernetes objects! Who cares that a bad commit can destroy the infrastructure the cluster depends on along with our ability to manage any of it!" or "Look we can have lots of namespaces for all our internal orgs and departments, lets make a gigantic centrally managed Kubernetes cluster that will be managed by IT and that everybody will be forced to use at the same time! Putting all our eggs in one basket is a awesome idea!".

K8s sorta removes the barrier of entry that world normally stop people from implementing those sorts of bad ideas.

Otherwise the core vanilla Kubernetes isn't really that complicated compared to most DIY solutions that try to manage large numbers of apps on clusters of systems. Most of the time it ends up a lot more robust and simpler in the right hands.

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#183
post #106
post #79

I use Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD all for fun, learning, and profit(the first two). At the very least it is nice to make acquaintance with at least one BSD because it will probably expand your knowledge on Linux in ways you wont be able to anticipate. For example, FreeBSD got me into kernel development, full system debugging, network stack development, driver development, and understanding how the whole kit f…

What sort of projects did you do to get into network stack and driver development on BSD?

Just commenting to express my interest also in the answer to this question.

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#184
post #79

I use Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD all for fun, learning, and profit(the first two). At the very least it is nice to make acquaintance with at least one BSD because it will probably expand your knowledge on Linux in ways you wont be able to anticipate. For example, FreeBSD got me into kernel development, full system debugging, network stack development, driver development, and understanding how the whole kit f…

> it will probably expand your knowledge It really just fragments my knowledge to be honest. Say "I gotta get things done". Get me to a terminal. You've got Mac OS command line flags, GNU, BSD. Great. Then it's some kind of asinine config to interact with some piece of software, all to achieve "generally the same thing", just a different way/flavor. I really don't see the benefits.

It’s like driving a car. Most people can drive without needing to understand the internals, and it’ll still get them from point A to B. But just like some people enjoy diving deep into car mechanics, others enjoy understanding the intricacies of software.

For me, that deeper knowledge is an advantage. It helps me quickly evaluate tradeoffs between databases, debug at the OS level, or dismiss a library still relying on select if I expect heavy load. This insight saves time and increases efficiency.

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#185
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3-4 would be great. What would you pick for the rest in this day and age though?

I'm still waiting for BeOS to make a come back

What is the situation with Haiku now?

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#186
post #5

> “If nothing is working, what am I paying you for? If everything’s working, what am I paying you for?” Bloke is not acquainted with Keynesian economics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OhIdDNtSv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO_tTnpof_o All a man needs is food in his stomach and a place to rest at the end of the day. Everything else is vanity What proportion of global GDP is dedicated to fulfilling our basic mat…

> So what does all the IT optimization bring? Just more wealth for the owners [...] It is time people in IT got to understand this

I understand it alright, but I'm trapped. Closer to 50 than to 40, I've got a family to run. I could be interested in another profession, but our daily lives & savings would tank if I stopped working, for learning another profession. Also, there's no other profession that I could realistically learn that would let me take nearly the same amount of money home every month. If someone lives alone, they could adjust their standard of living (-> downwards, of course); how do you do that for a family?

Furthermore, there is no switchover between "soulless software job for $$$" and "inspiring software job for $". There are only soulless jobs, only the $ varies. Work sucks absolutely everywhere; the only variable is compensation -- at best we can get one that "sucks less".

When I was a teenager, I could have never dreamt that programming would devolve into such a cruel daily grind for me. Mid-life crisis does change how we look at things, doesn't it. We want more meaning to our work (society has extremely decoupled livelihood from meaning), but there's just no way out. Responsibilities, real or imaginary, keep us trapped. I'd love to reboot my professional life, but the risks are extreme.

FWIW, I still appreciate interesting tasks at work; diving into the details lets me forget, at least for a while, how meaningless it all is.

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it will probably expand your knowledge It really just fragments my knowledge to be honest. Say "I gotta get things done". Get me to a terminal. You've got Mac OS command line flags, GNU, BSD. Great. Then it's some kind of asinine config to interact with some piece of software, all to achieve "generally the same thing", just a different way/flavor. I really don't see the benefits.

It’s like driving a car. Most people can drive without needing to understand the internals, and it’ll still get them from point A to B. But just like some people enjoy diving deep into car mechanics, others enjoy understanding the intricacies of software. For me, that deeper knowledge is an advantage. It helps me quickly evaluate tradeoffs between databases, debug at the OS level, or dismiss a library still relying o…

And in the car analogy, it's other a diesel engine vs gasoline. The fundamentals are the same but there are some core differences, and it's just nice to know more stuff about everything.

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#188
I'm surprised no one is talking about FreeNAS / TrueNAS and their interesting history in this area in the comments.

There's probably more collective writing about the various tradeoffs between Debian and FreeBSD in their forums and communities than anywhere else on the internet.

Personally I love ZFS and ZFS on root so much I can never go back to not having it. It's a shame more cloud providers like DigitalOcean/AWS/etc. don't offer it natively.

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#189
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because you've moved to AWS which is an expensive cloud. You could have easily run Kubernetes on your virtualised servers.

IME nothing easy about maintaining your own storage cluster!

Nothing easy in general about running a distributed platform for highly-available applications.

Re: Why and how we’re migrating many of our servers from Linux to the BSDs

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kubernetes has unquestionably been a game changer. If you look at most enterprises today you will see it deployed everywhere. And most of the complexity has been abstracted away by the cloud providers so all you're left with is a system that can handle all manner of different applications and deployment scenarios in a consistent way.

> Kubernetes has unquestionably been a game changer. > If you look at most enterprises today you will see it deployed everywhere. This doesn't mean it's a game changer. It just means it has a big cargo-cult and people keep using it regardless of whether they need it. > most of the complexity has been abstracted away by the cloud providers The abstractions that people add make things more complex, not less. Unless of…

> The abstractions that people add make things more complex, not less

Everything in our industry is built on abstractions.

By your logic we shouldn't be using operating systems, compilers, libraries etc and writing our own custom software to manually move applications between different hosts if they go down.

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