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Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

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Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#31

Post by sethammons »

_djo_ wrote: post #11

While this sort of thing sounds excessive and unfair at first glance, and the article is written with a clear slant, there's usually a good reason for it. Disaster response and rescue air missions are enormously complex with a lot of moving parts, and allowing anyone with an aircraft to get involved can actually make the entire response less effective. It's extremely common for disaster response and search & rescue t…

I don't have it handy. Caught a tiktok last night of a separate helicopter pilot. It is not one guy either. There are several private choppers trying to help. The one I heard, he had rescued a newborn and an older woman on oxygen. Both would otherwise be dead now. He says there are people with makeshift SOS markers and simply not enough public helicopter help. Apparently the rescue effort is focused on clearing 10 to 40 miles of downed trees. It needs to be on getting people airlifted out, flying through canyons, finding stuck survivors. There should be a fleet of army helicopters there three days ago. People are dying.

If they don't want people "getting in the way" then they have to be actually doing something. They are simply costing lives due to ego politics. They should be helping coordinate not shut down help.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#32

Post by aaomidi »

oefrha wrote: post #19

While the brave men should be applauded, can I vent my frustration about these victims, who decided it was a good idea to stay alone in a mountain AirBnB in the possible path of an incoming hurricane (I won’t even say this if they actually lived there)? It’s not like the hurricane came out of nowhere, there was plenty of advance warning. Good people sometimes die trying to rescue these idiots. Oh and there’s also a 4…

This is an unprecedented hurricane and humans make mistakes. These folks will never make that mistake in the future :)

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#33

Post by exabrial »

The government’s main concern is preserving itself and its budget (for its contractors).

I don’t know why we keep having to relearn this lesson over and over again. Your life does not matter to them; their primary concern is their preserving their power.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#34

Post by oefrha »

aaomidi wrote: post #32
oefrha wrote: post #19

While the brave men should be applauded, can I vent my frustration about these victims, who decided it was a good idea to stay alone in a mountain AirBnB in the possible path of an incoming hurricane (I won’t even say this if they actually lived there)? It’s not like the hurricane came out of nowhere, there was plenty of advance warning. Good people sometimes die trying to rescue these idiots. Oh and there’s also a 4…

This is an unprecedented hurricane and humans make mistakes. These folks will never make that mistake in the future :)

Even a significantly weaker hurricane can end badly for you if you’re alone in the mountains when it rips through.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#35

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #29
_djo_ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really possible if you don't have readily available pilots to fly it. The fire chief should have directed him to the organisation coordinating volunteers with their own helicopters, the Carolina Emergency Response Team, but it's possible he didn't know about it.

> if you don't have readily available pilots to fly it Sure. But it’s easier to find a pilot than a helicopter in a disaster. My point is threatening the pilot with arrest and sending him and his chopper away makes no sense.

[deleted]

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#36

Post by qwertox »

_djo_ wrote: post #11

While this sort of thing sounds excessive and unfair at first glance, and the article is written with a clear slant, there's usually a good reason for it. Disaster response and rescue air missions are enormously complex with a lot of moving parts, and allowing anyone with an aircraft to get involved can actually make the entire response less effective. It's extremely common for disaster response and search & rescue t…

> But imagine it's 20, 30, or a 100 all doing what he's doing.

> His mistake was only coordinating with some local firefighters, and believing that was enough.

This was my same thought. Also, if it's only half-coordinated and an accident happens, who pays for the damages or the lost human lives?

I know the intentions were exemplary and that they are heroes, but one first has to zoom out a bit.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#37

Post by _djo_ »

khafra wrote: post #18
_djo_ wrote: post #11

While this sort of thing sounds excessive and unfair at first glance, and the article is written with a clear slant, there's usually a good reason for it. Disaster response and rescue air missions are enormously complex with a lot of moving parts, and allowing anyone with an aircraft to get involved can actually make the entire response less effective. It's extremely common for disaster response and search & rescue t…

That's the best steelman of the fire official's position that I've seen, but it still sounds like it was a decent general rule, being overapplied when it was inappropriate for the situation (per the pilot's testimony, there were no other helicopters operating in the area, when he was threatened with arrest if he went back to pick up his son).

I agree the fire chief's response could've been better, but I'm also willing to cut people at the local response level a bit of slack in being overwhelmed, exhausted, and perhaps not fully aware of all the moving parts above them.

That's why it's so important as a volunteer to approach the organisations, units, groups, etc who are set up to accept and onboard volunteer help.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#38

Post by InsideOutSanta »

Dalewyn wrote: post #4

Whoever that "fire official" is, he is clearly a bureaucrat going on a power trip ecstatic that he finally gets to lord over the peasants and plebs begging for help at his whims. If the gods decide one day it's his turn to be fucked sideways, I shall have no sympathy.

That's one explanation, and it's absolutely possible that you're correct. Another possible explanation is that this is a person who is under immense stress and just doesn't have the mental flexibility right now to deal with integrating a private pilot into what I expect is quite a complex operation.

Do I hope I'd react better than this guy in the same situation? I sure do. Am I sure that I would, given the context of what is currently happening? Not really.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#39

Post by _djo_ »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #29
_djo_ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really possible if you don't have readily available pilots to fly it. The fire chief should have directed him to the organisation coordinating volunteers with their own helicopters, the Carolina Emergency Response Team, but it's possible he didn't know about it.

> if you don't have readily available pilots to fly it Sure. But it’s easier to find a pilot than a helicopter in a disaster. My point is threatening the pilot with arrest and sending him and his chopper away makes no sense.

As I said elsewhere, I'm willing to cut those responders at the local level a bit of slack given that they're probably exhausted, overwhelmed, and not fully aware of all the parts of the response. That's why it's important to offer your services via the organisations/groups/etc set up for it, rather than finding the nearest local first responders.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#40

Post by exabrial »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #24
bradley13 wrote: post #15

[flagged]

> FEMA is out of money, because they spend $1 billion supporting illegal immigrants FEMA is not in a cash shortage. It projects it will run out of cash. But that doesn’t impact present operations. (Technically, the whole government runs out of cash in December.) And remember: President Trump used FEMA funds on illegal immigrants, too [1]. [1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/aug/30/pete-butti...

That’s a lot of hand waving to say the exact same result
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