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Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

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Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#231

Post by what »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #142
whstl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are _some_ roles which may require in-person IME when working in a Product role, it worked better from the office. Doesn't have to be every day, but being able to talk directly to people is much better than having to schedule meetings. Tech positions don't even need daily video calls IMO. My team experimented with a few days of written status updates and it was fine. But they chose to have a 10-mins stand-up…

> being able to talk directly to people is much better than having to schedule meetings i do not understand what people are talking about when they say things like this personA: hey @personB you got 20 mins to talk about XYZ? personB: yeah gimme 10 mins personA: k, i’ll grab a coffee personA: /zoom start that’s ^ not scheduling a meeting. that’s having the same direct conversation but with like one extra step (joinin…

You might be leaving out the one hour delay between the first two messages.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#232

Post by smugma »

itsoktocry wrote: post #163
epolanski wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it absurd how Americans can't give up on their suburbs and car centric development dystopia and then spend so much time in their cars.

> I find it absurd how Americans can't give up on their suburbs and car centric development dystopia and then spend so much time in their cars I agree that kind of commute is insane, but maybe we don't all want to raise our families in shoe boxes (often surrounded by filth and crime) in the city centre (as if everyone in France lives in downtown Paris). You may find that thrilling, but I don't. None of it.

The irony is the vast groups of tech employees that choose to live in San Francisco and commute to the suburbs.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#233

Post by smugma »

hamandcheese wrote: post #110
worstspotgain wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Bay Area, 1-hour commutes are generally for older and apartment people. Younger family people are in the 2+ range.

Everyone I know with a long commute can afford a shorter commute, they just trade the commute for a larger single-family dwelling.

Most of the tech employees I know in SF could have shorter commutes with larger houses but choose to have smaller houses and longer commutes to live in the city rather than the suburbs. Why? Access to people in parks, cafes, bars, restaurants, events, “culture”, single people.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#234

Post by what »

nickjj wrote: post #207
Ancalagon wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just start my commute during work hours now and take standups from the car.

I wonder how different things would be if there were laws where if a company required you to RTO then your commute time is included in your expected working hours. Some companies are asking to RTO for half the week even if you're 50 miles away. Depending on where you're at that could be a ~5 hour round trip commute. If you factor in parking in certain places like NYC you're almost forced into taking a train so having…

You could always move closer to the office, if you don’t like your 2.5 hour commute.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#235

Post by Foobar8568 »

epolanski wrote: post #133
ryandrake wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I lived in the Bay Area, my commute was ~2.5 hours each way. I would have killed for a 1 hour commute.

I find it absurd how Americans can't give up on their suburbs and car centric development dystopia and then spend so much time in their cars.

I am at 2h30 total commute, and will be soon at 3h-3h30, in Switzerland.

At least, I can work remotely 2days+what ever I need depending of the day.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#236

Post by what »

Terr_ wrote: post #55
mushufasa wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have this capability so why not do it? sortof yes, sortof no. Aside from all the conversation about work culture, state taxes are a big barrier to fully remote work. States hate losing tax revenue. Notoriously, it is easier to register to do business in a state than to unregister. This is even harder internationally. For large organizations, remote can be the difference between one state's paperwork + regs + tax…

> state taxes are a big barrier to fully remote work What percentage of remote-workers are in a different tax-jurisdiction? Especially post-COVID I expected that the majority of remote-work involved people already in the same US state, merely with a nontrivial commute.

Lots? I was at a very small company and almost every employee was in a different state.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#237

Post by chii »

sbrother wrote: post #25
xyst wrote: post #12

They say this now. But in 12 months (or the next layoff period), they will move from hybrid to full RTO. Still a shitty move to mandate RTO. Most people (IT folks) have spoke with do this routine: 0) daily routine to prepare for day 1) 1 hr commute to shitty office 2) login to computer, do calls with cross regional (and international) teams over Zoom/Teams/Webex or whatever conferencing system 3) teleconferencing wit…

I think the worst part is 9) at night, do more work that requires focus time while no one is bothering you, since expectations got calibrated to when everyone had a private office and more control over their own time.

> since expectations got calibrated to when everyone had a private office and more control over their own time.

which is why you should not be doing overtime to meet expectation. Expectation (aka, productivity) needs to drop when RTO is mandated.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#238

Post by chii »

technick wrote: post #153
nostromo wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're forgetting that a lot of people still have to WFH, they just do it now before or after going to the office - so it's even worse than you're stating. I know some folks that work from the west coast with customers on the east coast, and they regularly are taking meetings at 6am from home, then commuting in, and getting home late. If we return to the office, we should not also be expected to work long hours when…

I was told at a previous job I couldn't work from home but they expected me to take my laptop home with me just in case something happened. My response was I couldn't work from home and just left my laptop at work.

> but they expected me to take my laptop home with me just in case something happened.

which is called being on call, and it needs to be paid. Otherwise, you're right, you cannot be expected to work (at home or not) in off hours.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#239

Post by rewgs »

sbrother wrote: post #25
xyst wrote: post #12

They say this now. But in 12 months (or the next layoff period), they will move from hybrid to full RTO. Still a shitty move to mandate RTO. Most people (IT folks) have spoke with do this routine: 0) daily routine to prepare for day 1) 1 hr commute to shitty office 2) login to computer, do calls with cross regional (and international) teams over Zoom/Teams/Webex or whatever conferencing system 3) teleconferencing wit…

I think the worst part is 9) at night, do more work that requires focus time while no one is bothering you, since expectations got calibrated to when everyone had a private office and more control over their own time.

There's no way in hell I'd agree to additional remote work if I'm being demanded to return to the office. Either it's remote or it's not.

Re: Google won't be mandating a strict return-to-office plan

#240

Post by rewgs »

deanCommie wrote: post #193
xyst wrote: post #12

They say this now. But in 12 months (or the next layoff period), they will move from hybrid to full RTO. Still a shitty move to mandate RTO. Most people (IT folks) have spoke with do this routine: 0) daily routine to prepare for day 1) 1 hr commute to shitty office 2) login to computer, do calls with cross regional (and international) teams over Zoom/Teams/Webex or whatever conferencing system 3) teleconferencing wit…

You're making it sound as if working from home was something that everyone did eternally, and not something that started in 2020 out of necessity. Going through your routine: 1) Noone forced these workers to live 1 hour from the office. In fact in the beforeCOVID times, people made an effort to live closer to where they work. Sure many can't afford to, but we're not talking about baristas here, right? But highly paid…

> You're making it sound as if working from home was something that everyone did eternally, and not something that started in 2020 out of necessity.

Err...what? Let's not rewrite history here. Plenty of people -- especially in tech -- worked remotely before Covid. Yes, the numbers increased dramatically, but don't make it sound like it was unheard of before the pandemic.

Also: tons and tons of people have no choice but to live far from the office. Rent is cheaper and more plentiful the farther out you get from metro centers, simple as.

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