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Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

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Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#141

Post by svara »

knowriju wrote: post #139
svara wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah - The thing though is, you could build the same thing better in a day's work by using OpenAI's API, or Gemini's for that matter. I wonder if there isn't a deeper, more worrying (for Google) reason behind that - that AI is killing their margin. Google has always been about delivering top notch services, and winning by being able to do that cheaper than the competition. It's "in their DNA" - everyone knows that us…

The problem with current crop of LLM models is that it makes for a great demo. I am also confident that you can build a working prototype for GMail, Outlook or any other surface. But I am equally confident it will be a massively different ballgame to role it out to a billion users. You'll run into a lot of edge cases and have to take care of a lot of adversarial scenarios as well. Pretty sure that's the same issue Ap…

I don't buy that at all. They've literally shipped a broken, useless product that this amateur could do better (yes, as a demo).

All the hard scalability stuff, they've already done before. Gmail exists, the Gemini API exists.

If they're not getting it to work, there must be another reason. They just can't afford to provide it at a price point that users accept.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#142

Post by wildmXranat »

sweca wrote: post #66
phren0logy wrote: post #22

As far as I can tell there's still no option for keeping data private?

If you are on the pay as you go model your data is exempted from training. > When you're using Paid Services, Google doesn't use your prompts (including associated system instructions, cached content, and files such as images, videos, or documents) or responses to improve our products, and will process your prompts and responses in accordance with the Data Processing Addendum for Products Where Google is a Data Proce…

Interesting. In essence, we could equate to paying for the Gemini Advanced or Pro as a way to avoid use of our data and prompts.

https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/terms#data-use-paid

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#143

Post by ekkk »

simonw wrote: post #13

This price drop is significant. For For comparison, GPT-4o is currently $5/million input and $15/million output and Claude 3.5 Sonnet is $3/million input and $15/million output. Gemini 1.5 Pro was already the cheapest of the frontier models and now it's even cheaper.

It doesn't matter if it's cheap, it's unusable.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#144

Post by ekkk »

JimDabell wrote: post #134
dcchambers wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Geminis are unusable how so?

In my experience, Gemini models are far worse than any other frontier model when it comes to hallucinations. They are also pretty bad at getting caught in loops where pointing out a mistake makes it flap between two broken solutions. And obviously the overzealous softly stuff that other people have mentioned.

Yep, idk why would anyone use gemini instead of chatgpt or claude.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#145

Post by 3choff »

arresin wrote: post #93

I’ve used it. The API is incredibly buggy and flakey. A particular pain point is the “recitation error” fiasco. If you’re developing a real world app this basically makes the Gemini api unusable. It strikes me as a kind of “Potemkin” service. Google is aware of the issue and it has been open on google's bug tracker since March 2024: https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/331677495 There is also discussion on GitHub:…

It seems the recitation problem has been fixed with the latest models. In my tests, the answer generation no longer stops prematurely. Before I resume a project that was on hold due to this issue, I'm gathering feedback from other users about their experiences with this and the new models. Are you still having this problem?

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#146

Post by nrvn »

CSMastermind wrote: post #82
ancorevard wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most important update. Pricing and speed doesn't matter when your call fails because of "safety".

Also Google's safety filters are absolutely awful. Beyond parody levels of bad. This is a query I did recently that got rejected for "safety" reasons: Who are the current NFL starting QBs? Controversial I know, I'm surprised I'd be willing to take the risk with submitting such a dangerous query to the model.

You know what. I just ran this query in gemini and it spit out “I'm not able to help with that, as I'm only a language model.” but just before that I got a glimpse of a real answer:

NFL Starting Quarterbacks for the 2024 Season Note: Quarterback situations can change throughout the season due to injuries, trades, or poor performance. AFC • Baltimore Ravens: Lamar Jackson Buffalo Bills: Josh Allen

But then it gets wiped and you cannot see it even in the drafts. The text above is from the screenshot I managed to make before the response vanished.

This non-deterministic unpredictable behavior blended with poor “safety” policies is one of those major “dealbreakers” that pushes me back from trusting any existing LLMs.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#147

Post by thekevan »

JimDabell wrote: post #134
dcchambers wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Geminis are unusable how so?

In my experience, Gemini models are far worse than any other frontier model when it comes to hallucinations. They are also pretty bad at getting caught in loops where pointing out a mistake makes it flap between two broken solutions. And obviously the overzealous softly stuff that other people have mentioned.

I have found that as well

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#148

Post by ancorevard »

CSMastermind wrote: post #129
elashri wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not stranger than my experience with openai. I got banned from DELL-3 access when it first came because I asked in the prompt about generating a particle moving in magnetic field of a forward direction and decays to two other particles with a kink angle between the particle and the charged daughter. I don't recall exact prompt but it should be something close to that. I really wonder what filters they had about kink…

For what it's worth I run every query I make through all the major models and Google's censorship is the only one I consistently hit. I think I bumped into Anthropics once? And I know I hit ChatGPTs a few months back but I don't even remember what the issue was. I hit Google's safety blocks at least a few times a week during the course of my regular work. It's actually crazy to me that they allowed someone to ship th…

Microsoft's OpenAI models seems even worse. They run their own "safety" filter.

Using their models in a medical setting is impossible. It refuses to describe scientific photos and will not summarize HCP discussions (texts) that it misinterprets.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#149

Post by copperx »

ekkk wrote: post #143
simonw wrote: post #13

This price drop is significant. For For comparison, GPT-4o is currently $5/million input and $15/million output and Claude 3.5 Sonnet is $3/million input and $15/million output. Gemini 1.5 Pro was already the cheapest of the frontier models and now it's even cheaper.

It doesn't matter if it's cheap, it's unusable.

Can you expound on why do you find it unusable?

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#150

Post by monsieurpooh »

simonw wrote: post #13

This price drop is significant. For For comparison, GPT-4o is currently $5/million input and $15/million output and Claude 3.5 Sonnet is $3/million input and $15/million output. Gemini 1.5 Pro was already the cheapest of the frontier models and now it's even cheaper.

They CHANGED the pricing from $2.50 to $5.00 stealthily unannounced. Look at the web site again; it says $5 per million now, and this comment on this website might be the ONLY evidence in the world that I wasn't gaslighting myself or hallucinating!
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