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Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

developers.googleblog.com

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Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#131

Post by campers »

xendipity wrote: post #36
sgt101 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We might see that with the inference ASICs later this year I guess?

Ooh, what are these ASICs you're talking about? My understanding was that we'll see AMD/Nvidia gpus continue to be pushed and very competitive as well as have new system architectures like cerebras or grok. I haven't heard about new compute platforms framed as ASICs.

https://www.etched.com/announcing-etched

I think there's another one but I can't remember the name of it.

Also a bit further out is https://spectrum.ieee.org/superconducting-computer

"Instead of the transistor, the basic element in superconducting logic is the Josephson-junction."

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#132

Post by bobwell »

elashri wrote: post #124
CSMastermind wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Google's safety filters are absolutely awful. Beyond parody levels of bad. This is a query I did recently that got rejected for "safety" reasons: Who are the current NFL starting QBs? Controversial I know, I'm surprised I'd be willing to take the risk with submitting such a dangerous query to the model.

Not stranger than my experience with openai. I got banned from DELL-3 access when it first came because I asked in the prompt about generating a particle moving in magnetic field of a forward direction and decays to two other particles with a kink angle between the particle and the charged daughter. I don't recall exact prompt but it should be something close to that. I really wonder what filters they had about kink…

I'm reminded of this short story about a government bureaucracy banning research in certain areas to prevent dangerous technology being discovered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dead_Past

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#133

Post by llelouch »

zaptrem wrote: post #106
scarmig wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheapness has a quality all its own. Gemini is substantially cheaper to run (in consumer prices, and likely internally as well) than OpenAI's models. You might wonder, what's the value in this, if the model isn't leading? But cheaper inference could potentially be a killer edge when you can scale test-time compute for reasoning. Scaling test-time compute is, after all, what makes o1 so powerful. And this new Gemini d…

Google still has an unbelievable training infrastructure advantage. The second they can figure out how to convert that directly to model performance without worrying about data (as the o1 blog post seemed to imply OAI had) they’ll be kings.

This is why Sam Altman keeps releasing things a few days before Deepmind. He is worried Google will overtake them more so than other companies.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#134

Post by JimDabell »

dcchambers wrote: post #81
stan_kirdey wrote: post #37

Google should just offer llama3 405b, maybe slightly fine tuned. Geminis are unusable.

> Geminis are unusable how so?

In my experience, Gemini models are far worse than any other frontier model when it comes to hallucinations. They are also pretty bad at getting caught in loops where pointing out a mistake makes it flap between two broken solutions. And obviously the overzealous softly stuff that other people have mentioned.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#135

Post by svara »

cj wrote: post #117
svara wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried the Gemini Gmail integration? I have that enabled in my GSuite account. It's incredible how bad it is. I've seen it claim I've never received mail from a certain person, while the email was open right next to the chat widget. I've seen it tell me to use the standard search tool, when that wasn't suitable for the query. I've literally never had it find anything that wouldn't have been easier to find wit…

> I'm genuinely confused why they released it like that. I agree. Right now it's not very useful, but has the potential to be if they keep investing in it. Maybe. I think Google, Microsoft, etc are all pressured to release something for fear of appearing to be behind the curve. Apple is clearly taking the opposite approach re: speed to market.

Yeah - The thing though is, you could build the same thing better in a day's work by using OpenAI's API, or Gemini's for that matter.

I wonder if there isn't a deeper, more worrying (for Google) reason behind that - that AI is killing their margin.

Google has always been about delivering top notch services, and winning by being able to do that cheaper than the competition.

It's "in their DNA" - everyone knows that using links to a website as a quality signal was a really good idea in the early days of Google, but what's a little less well known is that the true stroke of genius was the algorithmic efficiency of PageRank.

Similarly for GMail. Remember when it launched, 1 GB of free storage was just completely out of every competitor's league?

It may just be that this recipe of being smarter than everyone on algorithms and on datacenter operations might just not work anymore in the age of modern machine learning.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#136

Post by benterix »

jiggawatts wrote: post #107
jeffharris wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

apologies: it's taken us a minute to switch the default `gpt-4o` pointer to the newest snapshot we're planning on doing that default change next week (October 2nd). And you can get the lower prices now (and the structured outputs feature) by manually specify `gpt-4o-2024-08-06`

> “You can” No, “I” can’t. Open AI has always trickled out model access, putting their customers into “tiers” of access. I’m not sufficiently blessed by the great Sam to have immediate access. On, and Azure Open AI especially likes to drag their feet both consistently, and also on a per-region basis. I live in a “no model for you” region. Open AI says: “Wait your turn, peasant” while claiming to be about democratisin…

> Google and everyone else just gives access, no gatekeeping.

Well, Gemini Pro was delayed in Europe for many months. Same for Claude.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#138

Post by mnicky »

I think the sentiment here is not fully objective, there are nice improvements in benchmarks (and even more so when accounting for the price): https://imgur.com/a/K3tVPEw

Also, this model shouldn't be compared to the CoT o1, I think. That is something different (also in price and speed).

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#139

Post by knowriju »

svara wrote: post #135
cj wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm genuinely confused why they released it like that. I agree. Right now it's not very useful, but has the potential to be if they keep investing in it. Maybe. I think Google, Microsoft, etc are all pressured to release something for fear of appearing to be behind the curve. Apple is clearly taking the opposite approach re: speed to market.

Yeah - The thing though is, you could build the same thing better in a day's work by using OpenAI's API, or Gemini's for that matter. I wonder if there isn't a deeper, more worrying (for Google) reason behind that - that AI is killing their margin. Google has always been about delivering top notch services, and winning by being able to do that cheaper than the competition. It's "in their DNA" - everyone knows that us…

The problem with current crop of LLM models is that it makes for a great demo. I am also confident that you can build a working prototype for GMail, Outlook or any other surface. But I am equally confident it will be a massively different ballgame to role it out to a billion users. You'll run into a lot of edge cases and have to take care of a lot of adversarial scenarios as well. Pretty sure that's the same issue Apple is running into as well, and why they have had to postpone rollouts.

Re: Two new Gemini models, reduced 1.5 Pro pricing, increased rate limits, and more

#140

Post by jiggawatts »

benterix wrote: post #136
jiggawatts wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “You can” No, “I” can’t. Open AI has always trickled out model access, putting their customers into “tiers” of access. I’m not sufficiently blessed by the great Sam to have immediate access. On, and Azure Open AI especially likes to drag their feet both consistently, and also on a per-region basis. I live in a “no model for you” region. Open AI says: “Wait your turn, peasant” while claiming to be about democratisin…

> Google and everyone else just gives access, no gatekeeping. Well, Gemini Pro was delayed in Europe for many months. Same for Claude.

For legal/regulatory reasons, not for the arbitrary favouritism reasons of OpenAI.
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