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Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

motor1.com

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Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#161

Post by tirant »

thebruce87m wrote: post #125
Szpadel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many of people here live in US and assume that it everywhere things look similar. in my European country electric infrastructure is not ready for electric cars and with current energy prices this makes no financial sense. I own plug in hybrid and I live in apartment meaning I have no possibility to charge at home. near me (about 10 min of walking there is public single phase allow charger with 2 plugs machine…

> in my European country electric infrastructure is not ready for electric cars and with current energy prices this makes no financial sense. I’m always amazed by statements like this. People who have lived through the rollout of the internet to the masses can’t see how we’d modify existing structure to accommodate needs. We had phone lines initially, 20 years later now we have 5G, fibre, satellites. They just dug up…

Not even that: We have managed to extract some dense and flammable black oil hundreds of meters deep under the ocean soil, transport it thousands of km again to remote countries where it is processed and again transported and distributed daily to many storage locations where any layman can again transfer it to their own vehicles. That is a feat.

Electricity infrastructure already exists everywhere where we have civilization. And production is usually just hundreds or less km away. For lots of people it even happens at their own home.

The average amount of km every European drives is around 40km. For a standard EV that is around 7,2 kWh of energy per day, which can be charged in 2-3 hours from a normal 240V Schuko plug at home.

If there’s no option to charge at home, a weekly load on newer EVs with around 500km range would be more than enough, taking around 3-4 hours on standard 22kW chargers or less than 2 hours in a DC 50kW chargers.

EVs are a real option for lots of people. Main blocker for most of people according to most statistics is lack of knowledge on how to operate, and as a consequence fear of the unknown.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#162

Post by tirant »

arresin wrote: post #98
Szpadel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many of people here live in US and assume that it everywhere things look similar. in my European country electric infrastructure is not ready for electric cars and with current energy prices this makes no financial sense. I own plug in hybrid and I live in apartment meaning I have no possibility to charge at home. near me (about 10 min of walking there is public single phase allow charger with 2 plugs machine…

So spend on that infrastructure instead, or mandate it. Honestly, spending resources on anything ICEs (outside of special industries) in this day and age is just wrong.

Fortunately the definition of wrong is very personal. We still have at least 40-50 years of ICE vehicles running on the Earth. Making them even more efficient and cheap is a valuable feat for many millions.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#163

Post by threeseed »

oezi wrote: post #127
threeseed wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you live in the US. Because in almost every other country there is a real lack of decent charging infrastructure. Especially outside of densely populated areas.

I think Europe and China aren't doing so bad on charging infrastructure.

It's not bad but it's nowhere near what the US has.

Not just availability of chargers but also the average kW rate.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#164

Post by jvanderbot »

thebruce87m wrote: post #125
Szpadel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many of people here live in US and assume that it everywhere things look similar. in my European country electric infrastructure is not ready for electric cars and with current energy prices this makes no financial sense. I own plug in hybrid and I live in apartment meaning I have no possibility to charge at home. near me (about 10 min of walking there is public single phase allow charger with 2 plugs machine…

> in my European country electric infrastructure is not ready for electric cars and with current energy prices this makes no financial sense. I’m always amazed by statements like this. People who have lived through the rollout of the internet to the masses can’t see how we’d modify existing structure to accommodate needs. We had phone lines initially, 20 years later now we have 5G, fibre, satellites. They just dug up…

We have two massive parallel energy transfer systems in the world. And they are massive. Consider the electrical grid for all it's behemoth costs and regulations, at least it exists and is a known monster. Doubling it is a technical challenge but not an unknown. Akin to laying fiber. On one side of the grid you could even just change how the energy is produced at a few thousand plants and have zero change on consumer side if you wanted (for a given territory the size of a USA avg state)

Now imagine we came along and said we were going to add to the electrical grid a parallel system of transporting explosive liquid to billions of distributed combustion engines. Not only that, the explosive liquid is only available in a few politically charged areas in the world. Add all the tankers refineries pipes truck lines holding tanks pumps etc so that most people live at most a few miles from a holding tank that will distribute hundreds of gallons to them for their own micro power plant that only exists for their commute.

It seems crazy. We built both systems incrementally over time so we're in a massive sunk cost analysis whenever we think about replacing gas cars.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#165

Post by tirant »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #110
LightBug1 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're called sports cars for a reason. They're driven far less than everyday cars. They're fantastic fun. I'm an enviromentalist and I'd still buy an ICE Porsche. No EV has come close ... only the Hyundai ioniq 5 N seems to be looking interesting.

>I'm an enviromentalist and I'd still buy an ICE Porsche. Environmentalists walk or ride bikes.

According to whom?

I am also an environmentalist and burn some fuel from time to time, I’m not a zealot.

For me to operate and support the environment the best I can I also need to be mentally fit and have life enjoinment. And riding my old classic carbureted Triumph helps me with that.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#166

Post by usrusr »

mistercheph wrote: post #123
frankgrimesjr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sports cars, internal combustion engines still provide a weight advantage over battery packs.

I'm really looking forward to when someone manages to bring to market an EV that is light and efficient with small battery pack and lowish range that is purely about driving pleasure and fun, but E/V early adopters still want massive ten thousand pound luxury tanks, for now!

Unsurprisingly, Lotus (aka the maker of the car that Tesla converted into their Roadster) did not completely abandon their lightweight sports car identity in the BEV age. The Evija advertised with a range of 315 km.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#167

Post by pixxel »

lb1lf wrote: post #55
cbeach wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> performance cars should have ICEs After driving a fast Tesla, stepping into an ICE performance car feels like going back to a steam engine. A very slow, unresponsive steam engine. When avid petrolheads try a fast EV and feel the instant torque it will be an epiphany for them. Only the most stubborn will stick with fossil cars.

-True, but I believe (at least this holds true for me) - the tinkerability, if you like, of ICEs is much higher. You can work on them at home, install all sorts of modifications and upgrades - real or perceived - to a much larger extent than you (currently) can on your EV. It all depends on what makes cars interesting to you, of course - but a lot of the car enthusiast clientele would merrily start tinkering with the…

You’re wasting your time if you have to explain passion and soul, of which these types have neither.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#168

Post by chromatin »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #110
LightBug1 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're called sports cars for a reason. They're driven far less than everyday cars. They're fantastic fun. I'm an enviromentalist and I'd still buy an ICE Porsche. No EV has come close ... only the Hyundai ioniq 5 N seems to be looking interesting.

>I'm an enviromentalist and I'd still buy an ICE Porsche. Environmentalists walk or ride bikes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#169

Post by smileysteve »

cbeach wrote: post #29
lb1lf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably as Porsche is not about efficient transportation; it is about emotion, driving as an experience, making a statement, etc. Chances are there will be - or, at least, Porsche appears to bet there will be - a sufficient number of well-heeled enthusiasts who prefer the sound, smell and vibration of an ICE to the quiet performance of an electric motor. I am really curious to see how this pans out in a generation…

> performance cars should have ICEs After driving a fast Tesla, stepping into an ICE performance car feels like going back to a steam engine. A very slow, unresponsive steam engine. When avid petrolheads try a fast EV and feel the instant torque it will be an epiphany for them. Only the most stubborn will stick with fossil cars.

I was at a local track in my older bmw (non M), a Tesla 3 (on lowered springs) was next to me in the grid. It did not compete with the corvettes or Porsches but with the Miatas and Me, it just weighed too much in the turns to carry the speed.

Re: Porsche's idea for a six-stroke internal combustion engine

#170

Post by smileysteve »

wiseowise wrote: post #41
cbeach wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> performance cars should have ICEs After driving a fast Tesla, stepping into an ICE performance car feels like going back to a steam engine. A very slow, unresponsive steam engine. When avid petrolheads try a fast EV and feel the instant torque it will be an epiphany for them. Only the most stubborn will stick with fossil cars.

Instant torque is cool, but goddamn it is soulless.

Yet the manual transmission is dying out too.
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