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GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

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Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#191

Post by rsynnott »

Peanuts99 wrote: post #162
emilecantin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is common knowledge. I don't have a link to send you, but I've just looked up the closest supercharger on the Tesla website and it charges 0.55$ / kWh for NACS vehicles, while in my Tesla app the same supercharger shows 0.42$ / kWh.

Seems strange, in Europe where Tesla chargers are open to all CCS2 vehicles, the prices are the same for everyone. On most chargers you can just tap your payment card to start the charge, although I think you can get cheaper rates as a member too.

I mean, the EU and the US have _extremely_ different views on competition regulation (or, at least, different enthusiasms for it; the actual philosophy isn't that different, but the FTC has been basically moribund since the late 90s, whereas the EC is if anything getting more aggressive lately).

> On most chargers you can just tap your payment card to start the charge

This will be mandatory as of next year.

> although I think you can get cheaper rates as a member too.

AIUI this will no longer be permitted as of next year.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#193

Post by rsynnott »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #13
MBCook wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had to open their chargers to get some of the benefits from that big bill a year or two ago (build back better?). That may be why. In low use areas it may be a nice ROI. I’ve heard in high use areas things could already be bad from the increase in Teslas sold and piling Fords, GMs, and Rivians in isn’t going to lighten the load any.

Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, https://driveelectric.gov/news/new-cfi-funding-released > This funding opportunity is made possible by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law’s signature EV charging investments: the $2.5 billion Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) Discretionary Grant Program and funds from the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program that are set aside for strategic grants to st…

It's a difference between EU and US philosophies on regulation, particularly regulation of _competition_ issues. Broadly, the US's attitude is "please, companies, consider doing this, look at this big sack of subsidies", whereas the EU's attitude is "do this".

(This wasn't always the case, and in fact at one time the US was tougher on competition law than Europe was, but since the late 90s the US has been largely asleep at the wheel on competition.)

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#194

Post by rsynnott »

Spivak wrote: post #114
moomoo11 wrote: post #108

Hot take. Tesla supercharger network is better quality and an actual product compared to their rattle box cheap ass cars. Not worth it at the price I bought, and only good as leases imo now that they’re cheap. I am an OG in the sense that I had FSD at $2k and have seen the evolution of “full self driving”. It sucks. It’s a gimmick that I would not trust with the lives of my family. I trust myself enough to use it whe…

Would be an interesting pivot for Tesla to start as a car company, jumpstart the EV market in the US, sell the badge to another automaker and supply them batteries, and become the EV gas station It certainly makes more sense for the name.

It wouldn't be a pivot that would please investors. It's inherently a near-zero-margin business (if you are making a significant margin, then someone will open one down the road and undercut you); many actual fuel stations only really survive on the add-ons (convenience stores, 'premium' petrol, etc.)

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#195

Post by abenga »

Grubbo wrote: post #192

Batteries are becoming obsolete, scientists have discovered a new way to store energy, so the whole frame and body of the car is able to store energy. So we might see cars and laptops without batteries in the future.

Which scientists? Can I go out and buy this tech, or is it imaginary?

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#196

Post by Symbiote »

rpmisms wrote: post #59
MBCook wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn’t have a choice. My understand is the EU dictated all cars have the IEC Type 2(?) connector to sell, so Tesla complied. No mess like the US. The US had no such law and has refused to make one. We’ve gone with the traditional carrot approach where they wouldn’t get funds to built more superchargers without doing this due to the infrastructure law. But it was their choice and they didn’t have to.

Seems like the US free market approach is winning yet again, where the superior product is becoming the standard, and the inventor of the superior product is profiting.

The standard connector in Europe supports three phase connections, which are very common here. Even houses in many countries have this.

Tesla's own connector does not.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#197

Post by HFguy »

Aromasin wrote: post #161
jessriedel wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Traditional US car manufacturers are absolutely incompetent and will not survive competition with Chinese manufacturers unless they clean house on everything software related. Legacy American car companies have been fully non-competitive with foreign brands for decades. Their continued existence is completely due to tariffs, and it’s not close. I see no reason to think congress would suddenly allow them to be threa…

For those who aren't aware it's a 25% tarrif, so most manufacturers don't bother even trying to sell in the US. That's why almost all European/Japanese brand cars are 30+ years old over there. I find it entertaining when my US colleague come visit and are amazed at all the options. I drive a new Toyota Hilux, and they weren't even aware they made them anymore. For a country that once prided itself on being the land o…

"That's why almost all European/Japanese brand cars are 30+ years old over there"

This is just completely incorrect. Most of European and Japanese cars are not 30+ years old in the US.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#198

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

xattt wrote: post #173
Aromasin wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who aren't aware it's a 25% tarrif, so most manufacturers don't bother even trying to sell in the US. That's why almost all European/Japanese brand cars are 30+ years old over there. I find it entertaining when my US colleague come visit and are amazed at all the options. I drive a new Toyota Hilux, and they weren't even aware they made them anymore. For a country that once prided itself on being the land o…

Back in the 2000s, VW released the Sirroco. I was graduating from uni, and it looked like the perfect car for me. I would have moved heaven and earth to own one. Alas, VW hemmed and hawed on homologation for North America and ultimately, it did not happen. I do wish we had EU-level options here.

? You mean the Scirocco that's been around since the 70's?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Scirocco

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#199

Post by nxm »

jessriedel wrote: post #142
epistasis wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had some visitors to California from out of state recently, and the rental car place gave them an electric car (not Tesla), without basically any education about how to deal with them. I'm a huge fan of electric cars, and will probably never buy anything except EVs in the future, but man are you right that the non-Tesla experience is bleak. Charging was incredibly stressful. Few CCS chargers, each with a tiny numb…

> Traditional US car manufacturers are absolutely incompetent and will not survive competition with Chinese manufacturers unless they clean house on everything software related. Legacy American car companies have been fully non-competitive with foreign brands for decades. Their continued existence is completely due to tariffs, and it’s not close. I see no reason to think congress would suddenly allow them to be threa…

Tarrifs exist to protect higher wage jobs here in the US. There are no tariffs on foreign makers as long as they produce the cars or truck in the US.

Re: GM electric vehicles can now access Tesla Superchargers

#200

Post by nxm »

reaperman wrote: post #153
throwawaymaths wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover it's not clear how long china will be able to continue subsidizing the electric cars the way they do.

More subsidies than the $7,500 per vehicle subsidy that the US government gives for our EV vehicles?

Wages and hence manufacturing costs are higher in the US
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