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US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

theguardian.com

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Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#21

Post by usr1106 »

jimbob45 wrote: post #3

It's unfair to judge the EU piecewise but then judge the US as a whole. Either let us compare apples to apples by judging the whole EU against the US or let us judge individual European member states against individual US states.

The EU has no common health system at all. Calculating any kind of averages makes little sense. Within some countries I am personally familiar with there are significant differences in availability of health services between certain areas, rural vs urban, but also regionally. Legally the systems should be rather uniform within a country though. Many countries have a split between publicly financed and privately paid services. It's probably expected that privately paid services are used less in poorer regions.

With the US I am not really familiar. I'd expect commercially and legally it works the same over the whole country. In practice many services won't be offered somewhere in rural areals compared to metropolitan areas. So if you are unable to travel no treatment. And of course if you aren't well off, no expensive treatment.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#22

Post by yieldcrv »

jimbob45 wrote: post #3

It's unfair to judge the EU piecewise but then judge the US as a whole. Either let us compare apples to apples by judging the whole EU against the US or let us judge individual European member states against individual US states.

I agree, some individual states have free healthcare, free community college. It’s easy to fall out of these systems or be unaware of them, but they exist

I’m the last person to have an America boner, but there is room for objectivity

I’m a fan of Germany, Austria systems. An educated and healthy populace seems positive. I’m aware of the problems residents have with those systems, they have private options too. Public debt isn’t as high, and maximum tax between state and federal level is lower than maximum of California + Federal. So, seems better.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#23

Post by usr1106 »

ein0p wrote: post #8

Lately I can’t even get a doctor - both the specialist and primary care doctors are booked months in advance. And I have one of the best insurance coverages currently available. Remember how we laughed at Canadians and Brits waiting for months to see their free/cheap doctors? Well we’re at a point where we have to wait _and_ pay through the nose. And then they can’t really do anything or fuck you up even worse.

You forgot to mention what country you are talking about. That seems to be American.

Difficulties to get an appointment is also common in at least some areas of the EU countries I am familiar with.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#24

Post by highwaylights »

shiroiushi wrote: post #18
brtkdotse wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re a billionaire EVERYTHING is fantastic.

Not necessarily: if you're famous, you might have a hard time going out in public.

Hire your own public and make them act normal when you’re around.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#25

Post by vidarh »

ein0p wrote: post #8

Lately I can’t even get a doctor - both the specialist and primary care doctors are booked months in advance. And I have one of the best insurance coverages currently available. Remember how we laughed at Canadians and Brits waiting for months to see their free/cheap doctors? Well we’re at a point where we have to wait _and_ pay through the nose. And then they can’t really do anything or fuck you up even worse.

Not that I'm trying to make you feel worse about it: In the UK we pay less per capita in taxes toward healthcare than you do in the US (or at least did last I added up the numbers - Medicare and Medicaid alone added up to a higher per capita cost than the NHS), and if we do want private health insurance, which here is basically "queue skip insurance", it costs a fraction of in the US because they only need to provide the "extras" - you'll normally try your NHS GP first, call your insurer if you can't get an appointment, or ask them to refer you privately for things there are queues to get done on the NHS.

For a lot of elective procedures, the price is even low enough that it'd pay you to fly to the UK and stay in a hotel to get things done here if the recovery isn't too long.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#26

Post by hilux »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #15
jimbob45 wrote: post #3

It's unfair to judge the EU piecewise but then judge the US as a whole. Either let us compare apples to apples by judging the whole EU against the US or let us judge individual European member states against individual US states.

Ugh. This. Not just for healthcare though, for everything. Using small wealthy countries with populations smaller than our states as a comparison against our continent sized country is really not helping or proving anything.

Did you read the article? (I recently posted something similar - it's probably posted often.)

It's proving that the US, which spends BY FAR the most on healthcare per capita, is getting a very poor return on our investment.

It's not really "helping" because the GOP is so opposed to healthcare reform - which would cut into their corporate profits, and they've somehow persuaded their supporters that Jesus hated healthcare but loved automatic weapons.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#27

Post by ben_w »

shiroiushi wrote: post #18
brtkdotse wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re a billionaire EVERYTHING is fantastic.

Not necessarily: if you're famous, you might have a hard time going out in public.

I think that's more a problem with being famous: the top of the Wikipedia list* as I write this is "Bernard Arnault & family", who I've never heard of and therefore couldn't spot in a lineup much less a crowd.

But I did double-take when walking past Russell T Davis (or a lookalike) in Sheffield a decade and a half ago, and Richard Osman in Cambridge train station some other time.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World's_Billionaires

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#28

Post by shiroiushi »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #5
naming_the_user wrote: post #2

What does the ranking look like if you compare percentiles? Naively I would assume as a non-American that if you're in the top 20% by income in the US you end up much better off than the top 20% income Brit, for example. Or is it just actually worse for everyone? It feels intuitively obvious that the average will be worse because, well, the average person is skint and the US is less socialist.

The US health care system is partly socialized. Health care is provided for the unemployed or low income and the employed are covered as employers are required to provide health coverage. The odd ones out are typically small business owners who don't insure themselves and choose to take on the risk of potentially large medical bills. In all cases treatment is required by law, regardless of payment.

>In all cases treatment is required by law, regardless of payment.

No, it's not. This is a myth. The only thing that's required is to stabilize the patient. If you need surgery to repair your shattered leg bone so you don't get an infection and need an amputation, you're not going to get that surgery without payment. But once you get a bad infection and need the leg amputated so you don't die, they'll do that for free.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#29

Post by jraby3 »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #20

Because we are paying for the rest of the world. Allow prescription drug imports from abroad. Pharma companies will be forced to charge more in the rest of the world and less in US. Allow insurance plans based on medical tourism for expensive procedures. Some countries will say no, but a lot of countries will say yes for profit. Once you have a choice of a hip replacement in Mexico or India, hospitals in these countr…

A huge portion of our healthcare goes to paying health insurance providers, high rates for pharmaceuticals, and hospitals.

There's a reason these industries in the US are some of the most profitable. They act as middle men and make massive profits.

Re: US health system ranks last compared with peer nations – report

#30

Post by shiroiushi »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #20

Because we are paying for the rest of the world. Allow prescription drug imports from abroad. Pharma companies will be forced to charge more in the rest of the world and less in US. Allow insurance plans based on medical tourism for expensive procedures. Some countries will say no, but a lot of countries will say yes for profit. Once you have a choice of a hip replacement in Mexico or India, hospitals in these countr…

>Once you have a choice of a hip replacement in Mexico or India

This is already being done actually.

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