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Asgard launches world's first DDR5-9600 DIMMs

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Re: Asgard launches world's first DDR5-9600 DIMMs

#51

Post by zamadatix »

Numerlor wrote: post #50
zamadatix wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of consumers care more about either of total capacity or the concept of "I can just double my cheap RAM later" than care about ~10% differences in RAM clock speed. The latter is for those that really know what they're doing to eek out a couple more percentage points in benchmarks or non-consumer use cases, the former appeal to both budget users and prosumers alike (just not OC enthusiasts). From that angle I do…

> I can just double my cheap RAM later The thing is that this is quickly becoming impossible, even with fairly low speeds like 6000 2 DPC is not achieveable in some cases, and consumers that are buying the 4 DIMM boards aren't particularly aware of it

Even 6000 MHz isn't necessarily "cheap low speed" RAM though, it's still a 400 MHz OC on Zen 5/14th Gen. ~$44 gets you 2x8 GB 4800 but it's ~$63 to start with 2x8 GB 6000.

Simplifying it to one vendor for the sake of conversations: for boards that explicitly target 9800X OCing users it's a bit silly to see 4 slots all the time but for the majority of boards that target the whole lineup it's not nearly as silly. Same for the 9900/9950X class where a lot of the users might be intentionally looking for larger amounts of slow RAM for heavier applications, not necessarily the absolute best bandwidth or latency the processor can manage.

Re: Asgard launches world's first DDR5-9600 DIMMs

#52

Post by Numerlor »

zamadatix wrote: post #51
Numerlor wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can just double my cheap RAM later The thing is that this is quickly becoming impossible, even with fairly low speeds like 6000 2 DPC is not achieveable in some cases, and consumers that are buying the 4 DIMM boards aren't particularly aware of it

Even 6000 MHz isn't necessarily "cheap low speed" RAM though, it's still a 400 MHz OC on Zen 5/14th Gen. ~$44 gets you 2x8 GB 4800 but it's ~$63 to start with 2x8 GB 6000. Simplifying it to one vendor for the sake of conversations: for boards that explicitly target 9800X OCing users it's a bit silly to see 4 slots all the time but for the majority of boards that target the whole lineup it's not nearly as silly. Same…

> Even 6000 MHz isn't necessarily "cheap low speed" RAM though, it's still a 400 MHz OC on Zen 5/14th Gen. ~$44 gets you 2x8 GB 4800 but it's ~$63 to start with 2x8 GB 6000.

I'd argue that whatever JEDEC specs intel/AMD puts up are mostly irrelevant to the reality of things, and the upgrade minded people won't be limiting speeds because of their speculative future scenario. This only leaves people who are on a very constrained budget and can't buy all the RAM at once. And they could buy a single 16GB stick and then buy another one later on when necessary. The losses from only using one channel aren't going to be as pronounced as on DDR4 either because of the 8GB's halved bangrkups and DDR5's internal channel split.

> Same for the 9900/9950X class where a lot of the users might be intentionally looking for larger amounts of slow RAM for heavier applications, not necessarily the absolute best bandwidth or latency the processor can manage.

I think DDR5 changes things up a bit here as 64GB is currently easily used and is enough for most, even heavier, workloads. Like for example for HN's audience some programming without worrying about memory being eaten up outside some more extreme cases. I agree that there's still a lot of people who'd need the ram even accounting for that, but they don't exactly need 80% of boards to have 4 slots

Re: Asgard launches world's first DDR5-9600 DIMMs

#53

Post by wtallis »

Numerlor wrote: post #52
zamadatix wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even 6000 MHz isn't necessarily "cheap low speed" RAM though, it's still a 400 MHz OC on Zen 5/14th Gen. ~$44 gets you 2x8 GB 4800 but it's ~$63 to start with 2x8 GB 6000. Simplifying it to one vendor for the sake of conversations: for boards that explicitly target 9800X OCing users it's a bit silly to see 4 slots all the time but for the majority of boards that target the whole lineup it's not nearly as silly. Same…

> Even 6000 MHz isn't necessarily "cheap low speed" RAM though, it's still a 400 MHz OC on Zen 5/14th Gen. ~$44 gets you 2x8 GB 4800 but it's ~$63 to start with 2x8 GB 6000. I'd argue that whatever JEDEC specs intel/AMD puts up are mostly irrelevant to the reality of things, and the upgrade minded people won't be limiting speeds because of their speculative future scenario. This only leaves people who are on a very c…

According to PCPartPicker, 2x48GB kits at DDR5-5200 are currently the cheapest DDR5 on a $/GB basis, so you really need to have a workload requiring more than 96GB of RAM to justify having more than two DIMM slots. That's pretty solidly into workstation territory.

Re: Asgard launches world's first DDR5-9600 DIMMs

#55

Post by Woodi »

pureheartlover wrote: post #2

China based firm named Asgard with product names like Thor? Whats going on here?

Maybe something about hammers ? Or rainbow. They said they binned that korean chips, wonder how ? ;)

Anyway, we are better not buying pure american chips (they burns) and soon to be on terrorists linked list if we own one - x86 goes military ! I'm somewhat worry about them now - x86 means Windows everywhere ?

And that "AI PC", whatever it is, I already hate it...

Re: Asgard launches world's first DDR5-9600 DIMMs

#57

Post by skirmish »

tredre3 wrote: post #48
gryn wrote: post #20

did they also make a compatible motherboard ? because I can't get mine to go past 4800Mhz when my RAM is rated for 6400Mhz with AM5 CPU. for those who hadn't done this for a while, PSA: motherboards these days have a RAM compatibility list on their product page, check it before overspending on RAM.

> PSA: motherboards these days have a RAM compatibility list on their product page, check it before overspending on RAM. That's a valuable PSA, but FYI it's been that way since the 80s. I've been bitten by compatibility issues at least once a decade since the 90s myself, and the answer from forums or support is always "did you check the compatibility table tho?".

Some memory manufacturers have lists of motherboards compatible with a given memory kit. E.g. I checked that my motherboard was listed in [1] before buying the memory, and everything worked effortlessly together with EXPO on.

[1] https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/393/1665020366/F5-6000J3040G3...

Re: Asgard launches world's first DDR5-9600 DIMMs

#58

Post by Numerlor »

alberth wrote: post #54

Do higher frequency RAM provide an actual noticeable improvement in performance? Genuinely curious.

I'm only aware of the differences with manual timings but if you're not running the bottom of the (1 DIMM per channel) barell frequencies like 5200-5600 differences from going higher should be minimal. Not that many things actually scale with bandwidth so the higher frequencies are mostly helping because ther'll be shorter delays between operations where the registers for the timings bottom out at a higher number.

AMD also needs to change the sync of memory controller clock to memory clock to 1:2 instead of 1:1 above ~6000-6400 so as some anecdata 7800 performed roughly the same as 6000

Re: Asgard launches world's first DDR5-9600 DIMMs

#59

Post by zamadatix »

Numerlor wrote: post #52
zamadatix wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even 6000 MHz isn't necessarily "cheap low speed" RAM though, it's still a 400 MHz OC on Zen 5/14th Gen. ~$44 gets you 2x8 GB 4800 but it's ~$63 to start with 2x8 GB 6000. Simplifying it to one vendor for the sake of conversations: for boards that explicitly target 9800X OCing users it's a bit silly to see 4 slots all the time but for the majority of boards that target the whole lineup it's not nearly as silly. Same…

> Even 6000 MHz isn't necessarily "cheap low speed" RAM though, it's still a 400 MHz OC on Zen 5/14th Gen. ~$44 gets you 2x8 GB 4800 but it's ~$63 to start with 2x8 GB 6000. I'd argue that whatever JEDEC specs intel/AMD puts up are mostly irrelevant to the reality of things, and the upgrade minded people won't be limiting speeds because of their speculative future scenario. This only leaves people who are on a very c…

People on HN can probably be assumed to want to go past JEDEC 2x48 GB RAM every time, I, again, wouldn't argue what HN should do as what the average consumer should be expected to do though. Much like I don't expect to recommend the average HN reader get the 6 core variant but it doesn't mean it's not as popular to general consumers due to price.

Same with "64 GB being easily used", true or not it's still not the capacities most are buying in new builds (32 seems to be the new common target for gamers, with 16 being the new minimum there, for example)

Re: Asgard launches world's first DDR5-9600 DIMMs

#60

Post by zamadatix »

wtallis wrote: post #53
Numerlor wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even 6000 MHz isn't necessarily "cheap low speed" RAM though, it's still a 400 MHz OC on Zen 5/14th Gen. ~$44 gets you 2x8 GB 4800 but it's ~$63 to start with 2x8 GB 6000. I'd argue that whatever JEDEC specs intel/AMD puts up are mostly irrelevant to the reality of things, and the upgrade minded people won't be limiting speeds because of their speculative future scenario. This only leaves people who are on a very c…

According to PCPartPicker, 2x48GB kits at DDR5-5200 are currently the cheapest DDR5 on a $/GB basis, so you really need to have a workload requiring more than 96GB of RAM to justify having more than two DIMM slots. That's pretty solidly into workstation territory.

Is it far off in terms of $/GB in a normal user starting with 2x24 GB 5200 at ~half the up front cost while still being able to upgrade 4 years later, if needed, when memory is even cheaper and RAM requirements are higher versus all that pro/con difference against being able to run 2 high end DIMMs at 6400 instead of 6000 or similar difference by limiting the number of slots on the board. Again, I still think this makes plenty of sense for boards focused on OC enthusiast but paying more for the 400 MHz on a tradeoff of not being able to expand just doesn't seem particularly worth it on normal boards for normal users.

Or, perhaps stated differently, other than enthusiasts purchasing the best binned low density RAM who else has what practical gains by general consumer boards having fewer slots?

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