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Hate Mail and the New Religious Wars in Tech

pogue.blogs.nytimes.com

81–88 of 88 posts

Re: Hate Mail and the New Religious Wars in Tech

#81
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the same sort of thing constantly on HN and everywhere else. A poorly worded statement, misinterpreted out of context, spiraling the discussion out of control in some pointless, heated, and in some ways harmful direction. This is why the last few months I just stopped commenting here on HN, and quit a lot of other forums/communities. My communication skills just don't seem to be solid enough to help me avoid un…

Chris, I don't know how old you are or how many decades of experience you have with open discussions, particularly open technical discussions, but my advice is still simple, "Don't let it bother you because it doesn't really matter." Technical discussions can often be contentious, but often, they are contentious for the "right" reason, people care. When people actually care about building the "best" possible code, em…

> &but often, they are contentious for the "right" reason, people care.

Perhaps. There's also the fact that people are communicating via typed messages, which are signal-deficient. People may be using a language which is not their first language.

People do not follow Postel's Law: "be conservative in what you send, liberal in what you accept" - saving that flaming response to draft and sending a few hours later would help.

Some online communities have been entirely too content with flaming and have done little to stop it.

And, I say this gently, some people just don't have the social communication skills they need.

Sorry to hear about painful typing - that sucks.

Re: Hate Mail and the New Religious Wars in Tech

#82
post #12

One thing that wasn't addressed in the article: Unlike the 80s or early 90s, online anonymous discourse is now a mainstream activity. The standards for discourse on practically everything -- politics, local news, technology, style, health, etc. -- tend toward rudeness, hyperbole and ad hominem attacks. Another trend: Writers are no longer seen as a protected class. Magazines, newspapers and broadcasters and other pro…

This is a very insightful comment. I'd go further and argue that this kind of media-directed hate mail scales with a general unraveling of our faith in our institutions - the media being an important category. Although the OP has made a really good suggestion about how people take gadget reviews personally, he failed to bring up how a general lack of trust also creates a lot of fear and animosity. Ah, and I'll add a…

I agree with all this, but it would be silly to blame Fox News or the Republican Party (or for that matter Apple, with its locking down of hardware/software and questionable environmental practices) for choosing what works.

The blame is totally on the uneducated electorate (or "consumerate"). Conversely, IMO, education is the only lasting solution to these problems.

(NB, there is at least ONE non-liar at Fox: Shep Shepard. It's hilarious to see him directly contradict his co-worker shills, often earning him a place on Jon Stewart).

Re: Hate Mail and the New Religious Wars in Tech

#83
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mistake is selling them to Homo sapiens . Root of all evil there.

Hey now, lets be fair. Chimpanzees are pretty evil too!

At least, when they get nasty, none of it's about electronics fanboy bs.

Re: Hate Mail and the New Religious Wars in Tech

#84
post #69

This is not as much about tech as it is about advertising and commercialism. Our young generations are exposed to more and more advertising, commercialism and crass materialism throughout their lives, so it is no freaking wonder that young people will turn their phones into some kind of pillars of their existence. This was fueled by the so called "tech journalists" that fueled the original mania about the ipods and i…

I think you have a point about materialism because they inherently go hand-in-hand; if you define your life by your accumulation of material things then these types of brand/identity "divisions" are also part of your life.

But I think this kind of heavily-invested identity rivalry started way before advertising, right? And I certainly don't see how a product reviewer could be blamed.

Re: Hate Mail and the New Religious Wars in Tech

#85

I've really tried to make a conscious effort to always assume that someone's opinion is valid, even if I disagree, and to extend this to all matters of taste and opinions. I understand that some developers like working in Windows, or enjoy developing native iOS apps. First, I can't assume that it's always because of cognitive dissonance or ignorance that people enjoy things I loathe deeply. Second, I need to make an…

I did that for a long time. It's still my default working assumption.

I've actually worked to consciously question that. There are ideas and belief systems which are actively dangerous and hostile (Fascism, Qutbism/Islamist extremism, certain strains of new-agism, and, I'm starting to believe, so-called free market extremism and modern strains of Rousseauism).

Or maybe I'm just getting old and set in my ways.

Re: Hate Mail and the New Religious Wars in Tech

#86
post #2

Interestingly, the same phenomenon that makes people write those emails can make them "double down" on a tech choice. A friend defaults anti-Apple so refused to buy the "Jesus phone". After four Android phones, each less reliable than the last while his sister's still rocking an iPhone 3GS, he switched last week ... To Windows Phone 7. He just paid $500 for a phone that, 3 days later, was announced would not be upgra…

After four Android phones, each less reliable than the last

Seems unlikely.

Re: Hate Mail and the New Religious Wars in Tech

#87
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very insightful comment. I'd go further and argue that this kind of media-directed hate mail scales with a general unraveling of our faith in our institutions - the media being an important category. Although the OP has made a really good suggestion about how people take gadget reviews personally, he failed to bring up how a general lack of trust also creates a lot of fear and animosity. Ah, and I'll add a…

I agree with all this, but it would be silly to blame Fox News or the Republican Party (or for that matter Apple, with its locking down of hardware/software and questionable environmental practices) for choosing what works . The blame is totally on the uneducated electorate (or "consumerate"). Conversely, IMO, education is the only lasting solution to these problems. (NB, there is at least ONE non-liar at Fox: Shep S…

I actually strongly disagree with you, and I think that your comment itself is a very nice example of the problem. And I think that you might be able to see how very easily.

It is the very fact that we don't "blame" Fox News for choosing something that is evil, even when it works, that makes it work. It is up to those who have principles and who believe in right and wrong to draw real lines in the sand, and stop giving people a pass for choosing the expedient, if wrong, option. It's one thing to show compassion for people's foibles, it's another to completely abandon the duty of honest application of principles, if you have them.

Basically, we need to STOP saying, "You can't blame Fox for being liars because, after all, it works." That perpetuates the problem.

So, yes, the blame is on the consumer, but for every consumer that wholeheartedly believes in Fox, there are 10 more that know Fox is a liar but tolerates it because it "works". By pointing this out I hope to make a real difference in how behavior is perceived, and shape the world's institutions into the kind that I want: ones that value integrity above all.

Re: Hate Mail and the New Religious Wars in Tech

#88
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the same sort of thing constantly on HN and everywhere else. A poorly worded statement, misinterpreted out of context, spiraling the discussion out of control in some pointless, heated, and in some ways harmful direction. This is why the last few months I just stopped commenting here on HN, and quit a lot of other forums/communities. My communication skills just don't seem to be solid enough to help me avoid un…

Chris, I don't know how old you are or how many decades of experience you have with open discussions, particularly open technical discussions, but my advice is still simple, "Don't let it bother you because it doesn't really matter." Technical discussions can often be contentious, but often, they are contentious for the "right" reason, people care. When people actually care about building the "best" possible code, em…

Thank you so much for taking the time to type that.

"None of us can claim a total lack of crazy or total lack of asshole" really hit the nail on the head.

And I'll remember "If you stop communicating, you're robbing yourself of a chance to practice." for the rest of my life.

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