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Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

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Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#41

Post by maccard »

Waterluvian wrote: post #23
al_borland wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for user choice, but at the same time, the reason I opt for a console is to not think about that kind of thing. I expect the developers made the game with the hardware in mind and optimized it to run well with the graphics provided. The idea of a graphics vs performance mode feels like they needed to push the PS5 too hard to make the graphics good enough to justify a new console, but realistically, the hardwa…

It’s just a single switch. You don’t have to get into all kinds of graphics settings. They always carefully decide on defaults too, so you can simply pretend those options don’t exist.

You actually choose the default for your console which well behaved games will start and will let you override.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#42

Post by then4p »

mouse_ wrote: post #12
wetbaby wrote: post #8

I really wish developers on consoles would just accept what kind of performance consoles really offer. There isn't a single reason a game should be 30fps these days if that game tests your motor skills in any way. If you can't hit a locked 60fps target, you need to reassess your visuals. Hearing that 2/3 PS users are switching to 60fps, away from a default of 30fps is really interesting. You can have the best screens…

As long as people keep buying garbage, people will keep selling garbage. Can't really blame them. Framerate aside, a good percentage of modern TVs have abysmal latency. I recently played the original Super Monkey Ball 2 on a gamecube hooked up to a CRT and was shook; that sort of precision would never fly on modern hardware. Game mode helps, but only somewhat, it does not generally solve the issue. For this reason, a…

The switch (especially the pre-OLED) does not have better input latency than a kinda modern OLED TV.

The problem is that we're compounding latencies that would be ok if it was just 1. Controllers? Bluetooth instead of a cable. Monitor? OLED instead of CRT. Audio? Maybe also wireless.

All together creates a sluggishness you can feel but can't pinpoint.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#43

Post by fracus »

jayd16 wrote: post #37
adamc wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and I've seen comparisons before, but the truth is that I don't care. It doesn't change the game. Visual improvements between PS1 and PS2 made the characters look less bizarre and helped me recognize things. At this point, whether it looks photorealistic is just... irrelevant? Maybe some people care more, I can accept that. But there is no chance I'm going to buy a PS5 Pro for it, and I don't think many fans wi…

The power will also go towards artistic visual effects and more headroom for physics/gameplay, not just realism.

Ray tracing still looks gorgeous in games that aren't aiming to produce realism. See Ratchet and Clank and the Doom mod.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#44

Post by mikub »

I recently played God of War on PS5 when visiting a friend, what I noticed was that it was feeling really slow/sluggish, you press a button to punch someone and the whole character animation feels like it take 2-3 seconds. I also think, that in most of the games I've seen, the running animation still looks really stupid, especially in games that try to look realistic, it doesn't bother me that much in games like Zelda. But these days I mostly play round based JRPGs on my switch, so I really don't care that much about graphics or framerates. :)

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#45

Post by jrm4 »

Funny, I was playing Cyberpunk 2077 for the first time very recently. Previously, I'd played Cloudpunk, a "cyberpunk" voxel game with significantly less overhead.

But, most of the "vibe" is impressively similar; down to the first time I visited my Cyberpunk apartment, I was like -- haven't I been here before, because it's so similar to the Cloudpunk one, despite "graphics" differences.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#46

Post by falcolas »

Tade0 wrote: post #4
talldayo wrote: post #2

Say what you will, but this is why Cloud Gaming will make sense eventually. Upgrade cycles have to make you want new games - you can't advertise the same experiences with a "now in 4K/8K" label on it. On top of that, console gamers already pay for online service access and many subscribe to PlayStation+/Xbox Game Pass. They're effectively getting the worst of both worlds - paying SaaS prices for an experience they do…

All the Stadia users who I spoke with were generally happy with the service while it lasted. Their main concern - latency - turned out to be a non-issue. To me there's a great niche for it to be explored: cheat prevention in e-sports. Of course aimhacks will always be a thing, but the top players were always indistinguishable from cheaters in this regard.

> Their main concern - latency - turned out to be a non-issue.

I'm not fortunate enough to live near a Google (or Microsoft) datacenter. So latency in cloud gaming is a very real issue. I'm glad for those who could use it lag free. I never could (and probably never can short of moving).

The middle of Montana isn't exactly a hotspot for datacenters. For good reason.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#47

Post by deergomoo »

Waterluvian wrote: post #6

The thing I loved about the PS5, above all else, is that basically every game has a “performance mode” aka 60fps. I appreciate there are lots of people out there who don’t care about 30fps, but the ps5 generation gave us the choice. Furthermore, almost all the games I played on PS5 were PS4 games that now ran butter smooth.

Personally I was disappointed to find this generation of consoles still asking us to choose between performance and visuals. It felt like a necessary compromise last generation because those consoles were seriously underpowered; I'd hoped this time around we'd be back to just plug-and-play. It's easy to forget that prior to the PS3 and 360 generation, 60fps was very common.

I know I'm in the minority and a lot of people prefer the choice, but when a game is offering three or four different fidelity/performance modes (not uncommon now raytracing is a factor), I get decision paralysis and worry about whether I'm getting the optimal experience. I'd like a "developer recommended" option that they feel best matches their creative vision.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#48

Post by Manuel_D »

aplummer wrote: post #34

I seriously wish the switch did something like this (and not just the OLED version, which I bought). I'd love to play Zelda with a better frame-rate.

The issue is that handhelds are limited by their batery capacity. Running a steam deck at full power will exhaust the battery in ~2 hours. The ROG ally X outperforms the steam deck, but at the expense of nearly 2x battery consumption (25 watts vs 15 watts). You can't even run the ROG Ally at full power unless plugged in. Valve is probably waiting for efficient processors to make a significant leap in computing performance at the same TDP.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#49

Post by jayd16 »

proc0 wrote: post #19

Part of the problem is the lack for AAA studios to take big risks. They keep iterating on old ideas that do not take advantage of powerful hardware. The exception to this is photorealistic graphics, but that obviously limits the type of games that can be made. Only games like GTA 6 will be leveraging hardware in this way, but for most other games the graphical ceiling has been reached. Most games have more than enoug…

I'm a bit lost by your arguments here. You're saying that games need more CPU and Sony decided to ignore that?

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#50

Post by Retric »

falcolas wrote: post #40
Retric wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO low latency, rock solid, 30FPS is fine but hard to pull from on a 3D engine. The issue is average FPS means almost nothing when lag happens right after dramatic inputs like rapidly turning around. Worse there’s significant latency on everything from wireless controllers to the screen. I just wish the industry standardized on reporting and low 0.1% FPS and latency, it would have done wonders for the entire gaming…

Please no. 30fps will actually give me eye strain after awhile. 60 FPS at least, please. And no, 24fps film is not comparable to 30fps, because the film captures a smear of time, whereas computers/consoles do not.

Some rendering engines do smear time in various ways like Motion Blur. Ray tracing can pull it off more cheaply than rasterization but you still need to compute geometry multiple times in as single frame.
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