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Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

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Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#31

Post by spondylosaurus »

talldayo wrote: post #7
spondylosaurus wrote: post #3

A few things: - It seems like Sony chose to showcase "improvements" in games that already look pretty good, but there are other games for whom the improvement will be pretty dramatic (I've heard FFVII Remake cited as one). There may be an element there of Sony not wanting to put the worst offenders on blast by showing side-by-side of how shitty the game currently looks versus how nice it'll look on the Pro, which is…

MGSV is just a good looking game. It's one of those Yoshi's Island titles that will look good whether it's the day of release or 50 years into the future. Characters are well-designed, setpieces are pulpy and full of cold war personality, and the cinematics are all handled with that loving Kojima madness players have craved since MGS1. It really feels like a game that cost 80 million dollars to make, even though the…

Here's a fun MGSV fact: the amount of time that's passed since MGSV:TPP's release is the same amount of time that separates the events of GZ and TPP :)

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#32

Post by Retric »

wetbaby wrote: post #8

I really wish developers on consoles would just accept what kind of performance consoles really offer. There isn't a single reason a game should be 30fps these days if that game tests your motor skills in any way. If you can't hit a locked 60fps target, you need to reassess your visuals. Hearing that 2/3 PS users are switching to 60fps, away from a default of 30fps is really interesting. You can have the best screens…

IMO low latency, rock solid, 30FPS is fine but hard to pull from on a 3D engine. The issue is average FPS means almost nothing when lag happens right after dramatic inputs like rapidly turning around. Worse there’s significant latency on everything from wireless controllers to the screen.

I just wish the industry standardized on reporting and low 0.1% FPS and latency, it would have done wonders for the entire gaming industry.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#33

Post by berdon »

peterweyand38 wrote: post #26

When was the last time someone came out with a new pen and paper table top role playing game? It's been a while. We're into reruns. Graphics are comparatively an easy problem to ideas that are new.

Matt Colville and MCDM are working on Draw Steel and didn’t Critical Role release a few?

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#35

Post by falcolas »

peterweyand38 wrote: post #26

When was the last time someone came out with a new pen and paper table top role playing game? It's been a while. We're into reruns. Graphics are comparatively an easy problem to ideas that are new.

I recently got the rulebook for a Wizard of Oz TTRPG. It re-uses the D20 system, but everything else about it (including all the spells, races, monsters, etc) are new.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#36

Post by Ekaros »

adamc wrote: post #24
umutisik wrote: post #10

- If you just run the previous generation of games on the newer graphics, it's only a tiny bit better. But games designed for this generation will have more of a difference. Ultimately, it's all about giving the creators more freedom in making the game. Amazing games have been made with much less capability than today. - You're going to get another big jump in graphics and immersiveness once the current neural render…

Maybe so. But the part of the article I resonated with is that it just doesn't matter. I don't care. I buy games for gameplay, and better graphics -- which once opened up kinds of gameplay -- just doesn't matter anymore.

And this has been thing for good long while. One could even argue that some previous titles that played well with art style in their limitations look better than some later one. And this is even when doing "realistic" games. Games have looked good enough for many years now.

I really feel that we are still often lacking in other areas, or not enough care is put in there or lot of work and effort is being misdirected for various reasons...

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#37

Post by jayd16 »

adamc wrote: post #20
paradox242 wrote: post #18

We are well into diminishing returns territory with high resolution textures and 3D models, but most games are still using comparatively crude lighting technique. Raytraced lighting, when combined with the above high-fidelity game objects can produce startlingly realistic games today. Here is an example for a recent game called Bodycam: https://youtu.be/0ol0kTteyo0?feature=shared Even if you forgo the realistic textu…

Sure, and I've seen comparisons before, but the truth is that I don't care. It doesn't change the game. Visual improvements between PS1 and PS2 made the characters look less bizarre and helped me recognize things. At this point, whether it looks photorealistic is just... irrelevant? Maybe some people care more, I can accept that. But there is no chance I'm going to buy a PS5 Pro for it, and I don't think many fans wi…

The power will also go towards artistic visual effects and more headroom for physics/gameplay, not just realism.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#38

Post by adamc »

libertine wrote: post #17

Here are some problems I have with this article. Sony claimed that their user base compromised on "graphics" for the smoother experience of the "Performance" mode, so I don't see how they missed the ball when they decided to launch a Pro model that helps tackle this user need. Even if it was an excuse and they would release it anyway. The whole "Improved graphics" thing isn't just about "how nice a game looks compare…

Some of it (judging from myself) might be that companies have been pouring resources into graphics for 20 years and the benefit to me, as a gamer, has been modest. Sure, escaping PS1 graphics was good. Better graphics make it possible to recognized smaller features of the screen and interact with them. And, up to a point, better graphics help you imagine the gameworld.

But it's gone way overboard. I've looked at what raytracing can do. In an intellectual way it's impressive. But it doesn't really improve the experience of playing most games, which is driven by writing and gameplay.

And the latest video cards from NVIDIA just reinforced that feeling, as does the PS5 Pro price.

I think they've lost the plot, at least in terms of my interests.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#39

Post by bitwize »

I thought the entire eighth and ninth console generations were unnecessary, with the possible exception of the Switch. I eventually knuckled under and bought a PS4 so I could play Final Fantasy and Rez Infinite, but I haven't gotten into the ninth-gen stuff yet, several years into the console cycle.

Re: Playstation 5 Pro Shows the Futility of the Video-Game Graphics Race

#40

Post by falcolas »

Retric wrote: post #32
wetbaby wrote: post #8

I really wish developers on consoles would just accept what kind of performance consoles really offer. There isn't a single reason a game should be 30fps these days if that game tests your motor skills in any way. If you can't hit a locked 60fps target, you need to reassess your visuals. Hearing that 2/3 PS users are switching to 60fps, away from a default of 30fps is really interesting. You can have the best screens…

IMO low latency, rock solid, 30FPS is fine but hard to pull from on a 3D engine. The issue is average FPS means almost nothing when lag happens right after dramatic inputs like rapidly turning around. Worse there’s significant latency on everything from wireless controllers to the screen. I just wish the industry standardized on reporting and low 0.1% FPS and latency, it would have done wonders for the entire gaming…

Please no. 30fps will actually give me eye strain after awhile. 60 FPS at least, please.

And no, 24fps film is not comparable to 30fps, because the film captures a smear of time, whereas computers/consoles do not.

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