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DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

diypresso.com

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Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#141

Post by stiray »

klausa wrote: post #126
stiray wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong narative. I love espresso. But comparing it with 250 euro espresso machine, I highly doubt that it will make 500% better coffee, for wast majority of the owners, cleaning one And I am not saying that any other mentioned "mid range" espresso machine is worth that money.

I'd be very curious to see a 250E 58mm espresso machine with anything resembling the temperature stability of an E61.

Yeah, I am also curious to see coffees on both done by professional barista, blind tasting and the results.

edit: found something, but unfortunately, not the same barista and only two tasters. Plus decorations on milk gave a hint who made what... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9YhsDPz2I0

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#142

Post by siffin »

timvdalen wrote: post #124
bongobingo1 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moka and espresso machines produce different coffee though. They operate on the same principle but the pressures are much different.

So are coffee from a 250 EUR "espresso" machine and a higher-end one

No, coffee from a 250 EUR espresso machine and a higher end machine are still espresso. Stovetop doesn't make espresso coffee.

They are fundamentally different processes which product a completely different output.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#143

Post by rescbr »

hocuspocus wrote: post #64
mrguyorama wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If Nestlé hadn't crippled their machines on purpose Nestle invented an entirely new way to brew coffee AGAIN just to extra lock down their pod system from independent competition. The built all this wankery about spinning the pods at like 30k rpm to "force the water through the coffee like an espresso machine" but it _doesn't_. As Mr Hoffman discussed, the foam it creates is just aerated coffee, which is substantial…

I haven't really seen those in the wild yet. On the other hand there are plenty of cheap original Nespresso machines pretty much everywhere in Switzerland. In some countries Nestlé was virtually giving them away around 2010~2015. Shortly after, some patents expired and third party brands started selling plastic capsules, and Nestlé had to fight back and make their machines work poorly with these! As far as I know all…

Those are the Vertuo line, I believe they focus to sell it in the US market, since it is able to do way longer extractions. It goes up to 500 mL extractions or so.

I don't like it, I think Original Nespresso tastes way better. Of course nothing compared to a good espresso extraction, but for a quick sip it is good enough.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#144

Post by fransje26 »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #113
ben7799 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the bigger problem with Nespresso is the coffee/espresso tastes horrible and you have to deal with the waste.

The main worst thing about Nespresso capsules is the waste and the staleness. The two worst things about Nespresso are the waste, the staleness and the expense. The three worst things about Nespresso are the waste, the staleness and the expense and supporting such a corrupt mega-corporation. Amongst the worst things about Nespresso... hold on, I'll come in again.

Please think of the shareholders and let yourself out.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#145

Post by drrotmos »

The more I think about the more I feel that this is the wrong solution to the problem. Disclaimer: I'm doing a small open source espresso controller project, check it out if you're interested, but it's not ready for prime time yet: https://github.com/variegated-coffee.

My thinking is that this machine appeals mostly to people who already has an espresso machine. It's not particularly technologically advanced. It's a single boiler, an E61 group and a vibratory pump. If you're buying this machine, you're probably replacing a machine at a similar technology level, and that's not really a sustainable choice.

A well maintained espresso machine has a lifespan in the range of decades. Many recent innovations in espresso machines is mostly controllers, sensors and actuators. Also better pumps. These are all things that can easily be retrofitted to an older espresso machine.

There has been innovation in other areas not easily retrofittable (saturated groups, dual boilers instead of heat-exchangers, to name a few), but this machine doesn't really feature any of those.

I strongly believe that in this particular demographic, it's a much better (more sustainable, cheaper and all around more fun) idea to retrofit new and advanced parts to the espresso machine they presumably already have, than to buy a whole new machine. We don't need old espresso machines on landfills.

On the off chance that a prospective buyer doesn't already have a similar espresso machine, this isn't too bad of a choice, and the price is decent, but on the other hand, there are a lot of used machines on the market that are looking for a new owner and can be upgraded.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#146

Post by amelius »

tssva wrote: post #140
amelius wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I started drinking better coffee at work and hence found out that I was accustomed to drinking bad coffee.

Or you just discovered you personally prefer that coffee. Just because that is your preference doesn't make someone else's preference bad.

Well, I tried a lot of the different Nespresso options, also the Starbucks cups.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#147

Post by klausa »

stiray wrote: post #141
klausa wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be very curious to see a 250E 58mm espresso machine with anything resembling the temperature stability of an E61.

Yeah, I am also curious to see coffees on both done by professional barista, blind tasting and the results. edit: found something, but unfortunately, not the same barista and only two tasters. Plus decorations on milk gave a hint who made what... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9YhsDPz2I0

But this is a wrong metric to use! _Can_ you get the same coffee out of 250E machine as from a 20kE one? Probably!

Will it take the same amount of work? Will it be as repeatable as the more expensive one? Will you need to temperature surf? How many wasted shots does it take me to dial in? Can you steam milk at the same time as pulling a shot? Can you do a ~19g dose?

If "taste under best possible conditiosn" is your _only_ metric, then, sure, I guess anything over a baseline espresso machine is frivolous.

But espresso is _very_ finicky to get right, even with the best and most expensive equipment, under the best circumstances. Having a reliable, repeatable machine removes one variable from the equation, letting you worry about one thing less.

Creature comforts and convenience are valuable too! A beat-up 1990 sedan will get you from A-B just the same as a 2024 luxury german car. But people value _nice things_.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#148

Post by its_down_again »

Honestly, it looks really great. Definitely more polished than what I was expecting from open-source/hacker setup.

I've been dailying a Breville dual boiler since 2019, and I've tried a few other machines at coworking spaces and friends' places over the years. For me, as long as I can hit 9 bars with a decent puck extraction, the machine itself doesn’t make a huge difference in flavor. The challenge is finding the right beans, and the fine-tuning through the grinder and puck prep.

It's not that my machine struggles to push water through consistently, it's that I struggle to nail the grind size, achieve even particle distribution, and tamp evenly. Mornings especially—I just don’t have steady hands right after waking up. Funny enough, my best shots are usually in the afternoon. Sadly I try to avoid drinking coffee past noon, so it’s often for someone else, and I just take a tax with a tasting spoon.

The way I see it, upgrading the machine helps with drinks per hour throughput, not single shot quality. I think that's also why the at-home coffee community is more into things like the niche grinder and blind shaker.

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#149

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

stiray wrote: post #125
Wheaties466 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i can tell you that more often than not it will make 500% better espresso. I've owned 5 machines from varying price categories and the number of features you get with a machine around ~1200 gets you the most consistent experience. can you make a good shot of espresso with a ~250 euro machine? absolutely. can you make 2-5 back to back great shots? probably not. Can you use any bean you want and get a good shot? probab…

Should I mention audiophiles? The first feeling when you turn on a new system, it will never come back, until you get an arguably better system... And the rabbit hole is deep. How much did you pay for grinder? I think this is worth (for espresso lover) far more than 1250 euro machine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTFsBqhpLes&list=PLxz0FjZMVO...

Audiophiles are a bad analogy since you can setup a blind taste test of coffee equipment. And different people will make the same identifications. Which suggests that we all tasted the same thing. Where as you can’t tell the difference between cables.

I’m all for being skeptical, especially with something as subjective as taste.

But it always amuses me that people never bother to check their skepticism. Has it ever occurred to you that you might one day be wrong?

Re: DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

#150

Post by zero_iq »

drrotmos wrote: post #145

The more I think about the more I feel that this is the wrong solution to the problem. Disclaimer: I'm doing a small open source espresso controller project, check it out if you're interested, but it's not ready for prime time yet: https://github.com/variegated-coffee . My thinking is that this machine appeals mostly to people who already has an espresso machine. It's not particularly technologically advanced. It's a…

It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled.

If this was half the price, I might be interested. But if I wanted a coffee maker with open source control, I'd probably just hack an existing cheaper product. And I'm someone who absolutely loves assembling stuff from kits!

Heck, I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already got Doom running on a Sage.

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