The quest for a Wiki-less game
gamedev.stackexchange.com
The quest for a Wiki-less game
1–10 of 113 posts
Re: The quest for a Wiki-less game
#2> The reasoning for this is that the player experience is greatly hindered by searching up answers to problems found in a game.
This is an interesting statement to me, and I think the truth of it is debatable. It's certainly true if you're only looking at a specific sort of player experience, but there are other sorts of experiences some people want which is greatly enhanced by the use of reference material.
Why would a game designer want to reduce the appeal of their game to those sorts of players? Players who want the "pure" game experience can simply not look things up on the wiki.
Surely, in the end, game designers want to make games that are fun and engaging, so if the use of a wiki makes a game more fun and engaging to some, why would a game designer object to that?
Re: The quest for a Wiki-less game
#3> The reasoning for this is that the player experience is greatly hindered by searching up answers to problems found in a game. This is an interesting statement to me, and I think the truth of it is debatable. It's certainly true if you're only looking at a specific sort of player experience, but there are other sorts of experiences some people want which is greatly enhanced by the use of reference material. Why woul…
It really depends on the player and the game.
I could imagine being disappointed by a player who uses a game guide to speed through the shortest path in a game and then complains that the game is too short (or that the puzzles are too easy.)
Or by MMO players who spend 200 hours completing quests in a new expansion and then complain that there wasn't enough new content.
Re: The quest for a Wiki-less game
#4> The reasoning for this is that the player experience is greatly hindered by searching up answers to problems found in a game. This is an interesting statement to me, and I think the truth of it is debatable. It's certainly true if you're only looking at a specific sort of player experience, but there are other sorts of experiences some people want which is greatly enhanced by the use of reference material. Why woul…
It really depends on the player and the game. I could imagine being disappointed by a player who uses a game guide to speed through the shortest path in a game and then complains that the game is too short (or that the puzzles are too easy.) Or by MMO players who spend 200 hours completing quests in a new expansion and then complain that there wasn't enough new content.
Though I could imagine huge/dynamic/roguelike/AI games that get bigger and bigger the more people play them. So all of that time could be exploring/creating new game areas or storylines that didn't exist until you started exploring, something that regularly occurs in tabletop RPGs. The idea of a dungeon, planet, or galaxy so vast that it would take millions of players years to explore it fully is interesting as well. In that case different instances of the game could be extremely different, depending on where the players decided to go.
Re: The quest for a Wiki-less game
#5Earlier quoted context omitted.
It really depends on the player and the game. I could imagine being disappointed by a player who uses a game guide to speed through the shortest path in a game and then complains that the game is too short (or that the puzzles are too easy.) Or by MMO players who spend 200 hours completing quests in a new expansion and then complain that there wasn't enough new content.
Though I could imagine huge/dynamic/roguelike/AI games that get bigger and bigger the more people play them. So all of that time could be exploring/creating new game areas or storylines that didn't exist until you started exploring, something that regularly occurs in tabletop RPGs. The idea of a dungeon, planet, or galaxy so vast that it would take millions of players years to explore it fully is interesting as well.…
Reminds me of No Man's Sky. Which has multiple huge galaxies mostly unexplored. It is just that procedural generation is not yet at point where these generated worlds are actually interesting or different enough. You end up seeing same elements and things over and over again.
I think big challenge now is how to get AI or system to generate good and novel feeling content. Not just rehashing same elements placed slightly different with some sliders moved around.
Re: The quest for a Wiki-less game
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
Though I could imagine huge/dynamic/roguelike/AI games that get bigger and bigger the more people play them. So all of that time could be exploring/creating new game areas or storylines that didn't exist until you started exploring, something that regularly occurs in tabletop RPGs. The idea of a dungeon, planet, or galaxy so vast that it would take millions of players years to explore it fully is interesting as well.…
Reminds me of No Man's Sky. Which has multiple huge galaxies mostly unexplored. It is just that procedural generation is not yet at point where these generated worlds are actually interesting or different enough. You end up seeing same elements and things over and over again. I think big challenge now is how to get AI or system to generate good and novel feeling content. Not just rehashing same elements placed slight…
That is really exciting; I wonder if there is some really interesting world that just hasn't been generated/discovered yet? Or that will be in an upcoming/more advanced version of this sort of game?
Re: The quest for a Wiki-less game
#7Minecraft is a good counterexample to what the author wants.
People look up recipes all the time on wiki and yet Minecraft is the #1 best selling game, so obviously it isn't an issue in the real world.
Re: The quest for a Wiki-less game
#8Minecraft is a good counterexample to what the author wants. People look up recipes all the time on wiki and yet Minecraft is the #1 best selling game, so obviously it isn't an issue in the real world.
There is a fragile relation there, between invested work and thus user investment and willingness to put in work.
The UI can loose the "self-learn" mode, as soon, as the user has invested and is invested in the game behind it. Before that - you are fishing without bait and got no leverage.
Re: The quest for a Wiki-less game
#9> The reasoning for this is that the player experience is greatly hindered by searching up answers to problems found in a game. This is an interesting statement to me, and I think the truth of it is debatable. It's certainly true if you're only looking at a specific sort of player experience, but there are other sorts of experiences some people want which is greatly enhanced by the use of reference material. Why woul…
It really depends on the player and the game. I could imagine being disappointed by a player who uses a game guide to speed through the shortest path in a game and then complains that the game is too short (or that the puzzles are too easy.) Or by MMO players who spend 200 hours completing quests in a new expansion and then complain that there wasn't enough new content.
> I could imagine being disappointed by a player who uses a game guide to speed through the shortest path in a game and then complains that the game is too short (or that the puzzles are too easy.)
Sure, but I doubt this straw man actually exists.
Re: The quest for a Wiki-less game
#10Really disagree with the hypothesis the author has, and especially don't think that the player experience is hindered (at all) by searching for things in an external wiki. Most of the games I really like (Factorio, Dwarf Fortress, Subnautica, Valheim, Satisfactory, recently Shapez2 as examples) I enjoy partly because of the active community (and wikis are obviously part of that). I love seeing solutions that other people have found, and a big part of my enjoyment comes from comparing my own solutions with those from others in the community.
In all of those examples I'm figuring things out myself and using a wiki and sometimes other community tools such as calculators etc.
I would be really amazed if this person makes a good game when their focus is make players do A rather than B instead of "how do I make this game as much fun to play as possible". It's also likely that the gameplay systems are really shallow if they feel they would be harmed by people searching for information in a wiki.