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We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

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171–180 of 391 posts

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By “folkloric history”, don’t you actually mean just “history”?

I guess they mean the stigma that arose based on the reality in the past. So kind of both.

They fucked themselves and the rest of us moved on.

You can become a good person late in life and still be lonely because all your bridges are burned to the ground.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#172
post #143
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As has been demonstrated many, many (many, many (many many many many many...)) times: there is no such thing as computer security. If you have data on a computer that is connected to the Internet, you should consider that data semi-public. If you put data on someone else's computer, you should consider that data fully public. Our computer security analogies are modeled around securing a home from burglars, but the ac…

> Our computer security analogies are modeled around securing a home from burglars Well, no home is burglar-proof either. Just like with computer security, we define , often just implicitly, a threat model and then we decide which kind of security measures we use to protect our homes. But a determined burglar could still find a way in. And here we get to a classic security consideration: if the effort required to bre…

I agree, my point is we need to be using the correct threat model when thinking about those risks. You might feel comfortable storing your unreplaceable valuables in a house that is reasonably secure against burglars, even if it's not perfectly secure. But you'd feel otherwise about an oceanfront property regularly facing 30 foot storm surges. I'm saying the latter is the correct frame of mind to be in when thinking about whether to put data onto an Internet-connected computer.

It's no huge loss if the sea takes all the cat photos off my phone. But if you're a hospital or civil services admin hooking up your operation to the Internet, you gotta be prepared for it all to go out to sea one day, because it will. Is that worth the gains?

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#173
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As has been demonstrated many, many (many, many (many many many many many...)) times: there is no such thing as computer security. If you have data on a computer that is connected to the Internet, you should consider that data semi-public. If you put data on someone else's computer, you should consider that data fully public. Our computer security analogies are modeled around securing a home from burglars, but the ac…

> As has been demonstrated many, many (many, many (many many many many many...)) times: there is no such thing as computer security. Of course there is, and things are only getting more secure. Just because a lot of insecurity exists doesn't mean computer security isn't possible.

It's a matter of opinion, but no, I disagree. People are building new software all the time. It all has bugs. It will always have bugs. The only way to build secure software is to increase its cost by a factor of 100 or more (think medical and aviation software). No one is going to accept that.

Computer security is impossible at the prices we can afford. That doesn't mean we can't use computers, but it does mean we need to assess the threats appropriately. I don't think most people do.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard it said that one of the reasons Fortran has a reputation for bad code is this combination: lots of people who haven't had any education in best practices; and it's really easy in Fortran to write bad code.

Which is why that “you can write Fortran in any language” is such an epithet.

Most horrific code I've ever seen was a VB6 project written by a mainframe programmer... I didn't even know VB6 could do some of the things he did... and wish I never did. Not to mention variables like a, b, c, d .. aa, ab...

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you use tabs or spaces? Just joking, but: The point is that our industry has a lot of opinionated individuals that tend to disagree on fundamentals, implementations, designs, etc., for good reasons! That's why we have thousands of frameworks, hundreds of databases, hundreds of programming languages, etc. Not everything our industry does is profit driven, or even rational.

FWIW, all my toy languages consider U+0009 HORIZONTAL TABULATION in a source file to be an invalid character, like any other control character except for U+000A LINE FEED (and also U+000D CARRIAGE RETURN but only when immediately before a LINE FEED).

I’d be a python programmer now if they had done this. It’s such an egregiously ridiculous foot gun that I can’t stand it.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#176
Very cool work.

>The dotmobiregistry.net domain, and whois.dotmobiregisry.net hostname, has been pointed to sinkhole systems provided by ShadowServer that now proxy the legitimate WHOIS response for .mobi domains.

If those domains were meant to be deprecated should be better to return a 404. Keeping them active and working like normal reduces the insensitive to switch to the legitimate domain.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our industry needs to finish what it starts. Between IPv6, DNSSEC, SMTP TLS, SCTP/QUIC, etc all of these bedrock technologies feel like they're permanently stuck in a half completed implementation/migration. Like someone at your work had all these great ideas, started implementing them, then quit when they realized it would be too difficult to complete.

Doesn't every place have a collection of ideas that are half implemented? I know I often choose between finishing somebody else's project or proving we don't need it and decommissioning it. I'm convinced it's just human nature to work on something while it is interesting and move on. What is the motivation to actually finish? Why would the the technologies that should hold up the Internet itself be any different?

I was weeks away from turning off someone’s giant pile of spaghetti code and replacing it with about fifty lines of code when I got laid off.

I bet they never finished it, since the perpetrators are half the remaining team.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#178
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am definitely not arguing in favor of DNSSEC. However, I don't think it's reasonable to call DNS, as a system, "very trustworthy". "Well-secured" by active effort, and consequently "adequately trustworthy" for consumer ecommerce, sure. But DNS is a systemic weak link in the chain of trust, and must be treated with extra caution for "actually secure" systems. (E.g., for TLS and where possible, the standard way to re…

Is certificate pinning common? On the web we used to have HPKP, but that's obsolete and I didn't think it was replaced. I know pinning is common in mobile apps, but I've generally heard that's more to prevent end-user tampering than any actual distrust of the CAs/DNS. I think you're "well-secured" comment is saying the same thing I am, with some disagreement about "adequate" vs "very". I don't spend any time worrying…

I agree that the semantics of "adequate" and "very" are moot.

As always, it ultimately depends on your threat profile, real or imagined.

Re: certificate pinning, it's common practice in the financial industry at least. It mitigates a few risks, of which I'd rate DNS compromise as more likely than a rogue CA or a persistent BGP hijack.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#179
post #3

Great write-up - the tip of the iceberg on how fragile TLS/SSL is. Let's add a few: 1. WHOIS isn't encrypted or signed, but is somehow suitable for verification (?) 2. DNS CAA records aren't protected by DNSSEC, as absence of a DNS record isn't sign-able (correction: NSEC is an optional DNSSEC extension) 3. DNS root & TLD servers are poorly protected against BGP hijacks (adding that DNSSEC is optional for CAs to veri…

> It must be because if anyone abuses these issues, someone might wake up and care enough to fix them If anyone knows they are being abused, anyway. I conclude that someone may be abusing them, but those doing so try to keep it unknown that they have done so, to preserve their access to the vulnerability.

It’s like the crime numbers. If you’re good enough at embezzling nobody knows you embezzled. So what’s the real crime numbers? Nobody knows. And anyone who has an informed guess isn’t saying.

A big company might discover millions are missing years after the fact and back date reports. But nobody is ever going to record those office supplies.

Re: We spent $20 to achieve RCE and accidentally became the admins of .mobi

#180
post #3

Great write-up - the tip of the iceberg on how fragile TLS/SSL is. Let's add a few: 1. WHOIS isn't encrypted or signed, but is somehow suitable for verification (?) 2. DNS CAA records aren't protected by DNSSEC, as absence of a DNS record isn't sign-able (correction: NSEC is an optional DNSSEC extension) 3. DNS root & TLD servers are poorly protected against BGP hijacks (adding that DNSSEC is optional for CAs to veri…

Our industry needs to finish what it starts. Between IPv6, DNSSEC, SMTP TLS, SCTP/QUIC, etc all of these bedrock technologies feel like they're permanently stuck in a half completed implementation/migration. Like someone at your work had all these great ideas, started implementing them, then quit when they realized it would be too difficult to complete.

Or got fired/laid off and the project languished?
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