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The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

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Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#831

Post by BlueTemplar »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #176
cmiles74 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the CDL hurting working authors? A library bought the book, paying the publisher and the author. The IA scanned the book for digital lending, this digital copy could only be checked out by one person and only when the physical book was not also checked out. I understand the court decided this wasn't okay. That aside, how was it hurting working authors?

> this digital copy could only be checked out by one person and only when the physical book was not also checked out Even if that were the case I don’t think it’s acceptable. Physical used goods have limitations on transfer rate. If you want a used book you have to go to the store. Or have it shipped across the country. I adamantly oppose a global digital pool with instantaneous transfers. In that world you never nee…

Or we could set up an alternative system making sure that authors can make a living from their works (and not just the most popular ones either) :

https://stallman.org/mecenat/global-patronage.html

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#832

Post by BlueTemplar »

rockskon wrote: post #767
forrestthewoods wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So people with perfect vision and hearing should be able to check out materials from a library and people with impairments shouldn't? That's also against the law. People with impairments can also check materials out from the library. The existence of a library for some things does not mandate a library for all things. > So you're against the existence of libraries at all? I think that first sale doctrine strikes a…

It puzzles me to hear of these "degradation" arguments, as if it isn't common to find perfectly readable books over 100 years old in antique shops. "Degradation" is the conception publishers want to think of applying to their goods. Because they want an income stream worthy of items that perish in a matter of years, not decades or centuries.

I generally agree, but I'm not sure that your example works : it smells of survivorship bias (or whatever is the equivalent name for objects rather than people?)

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#833

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

TrinaryWorksToo wrote: post #426
SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That hypothetical device does not exist, it's not relevant here.

A live camera feed and IA's page turner exists. Would live streaming the feed work?

No, that's making a copy. Several copies, really, and distributing at least one of them.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#834

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #428
SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That hypothetical device does not exist, it's not relevant here.

It does exist, it's called FPV arm robot. Drive around the library, take books from shelves, open them, turn pages, read. Would be curious to try this because the "ebooks don't wear" argument won't apply.

That doesn't solve the fact that the robot can't do the reading for the user. It takes a picture (makes a copy of the page), then sends a copy of that data to some remote user (distributes an infringing copy).

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#835

Post by TrinaryWorksToo »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #833
TrinaryWorksToo wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A live camera feed and IA's page turner exists. Would live streaming the feed work?

No, that's making a copy. Several copies, really, and distributing at least one of them.

How about I use a mirror and a lens and fancy fiber optics to do the same thing with no computer involved?

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#836

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

ilamont wrote: post #52

This has been playing out for many years. And it's all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive's mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States. When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored: The Internet Archive says it would rat…

What is CDL?

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#837

Post by SllX »

canibal wrote: post #777
SllX wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a controlled manner in line with existing laws, yes. The law is still the law, even though the law may not be what you or I would like it to be.

Funnily enough, the courts are the best place to change/challenge that law without a literal act of Congress. (Apologies for any snark, but this is somewhat fueled by another, similar debate had previously) In America there should be no such debate regarding defying law being bandied about as infallible or intransigent.

Courts are a good place to challenge the law only if there is a higher law that contradicts them. If we’re talking Federal law, then the step up from there is the constitutionality of the law, which is not an easy case to make. Usually what gets challenged is the Executive’s interpretation of the law more so than the law itself, which is still not an easy case to make, but easier than challenging a law passed by Congress. Typically these are big cases that make the news, but actual constitutional challenges are statistically rare and successful ones much more so.

The Internet Archive didn’t even get dragged into court for an interesting case, and their defiance was ideologically interesting but jurisprudentially uninteresting.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#838

Post by tombert »

jrflowers wrote: post #826
Dalewyn wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It is good to know that you have verified one of those links. Did you report that or any of the others? What has your experience been like trying to remove infringing content from that site other than you distributing links to said content on other websites? Your confidence that this is so clear-cut flagrant disregard for the law indicates that you must have engaged with them extensively in some way other than sharin…

I think you're missing their point. Even if the poster does report it, it doesn't really change the fact that the Internet Archive is basically the best place to pirate media, and as I keep saying, if I know about it, their staff certainly does too, they're not idiots.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#839

Post by sam0x17 »

vel0city wrote: post #691
sam0x17 wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have the physical book how is this any different, it had to be purchased at some point or donated for them to acquire it. If anything I would argue they are doing more work for the publishers by creating an ebook from scans. I also think a sane interpretation of fair use would be that the scan is a new / derivative work that is transformative, but we'll never get there with the current legal climate. Philosop…

> I also think a sane interpretation of fair use would be that the scan is a new / derivative work that is transformative The creative part being protected by copyright are the words, not the physical pages. You're not transforming the words; you're transforming the paper to bitmaps. All the words and concepts within them are the same. It's not transformative in the same way ripping a CD to an MP3 isn't transformativ…

> if I change the font for an ebook, have I meaningfully transformed it?

Change one pixel and imo yes

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