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A Post-Google World?

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Re: A Post-Google World?

#61

Post by advael »

mbrumlow wrote: post #24
tmpz22 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If profits degrade for Google society will feel the impact pretty quickly. Think about how many schools rely on Google for Education for email, SSO, and Chromebooks. Think about people who rely on Google Maps, Sheets, Docs, and other loss-leading products. Think about all the data they scoop up in all their apps. Late game capitalism applied to Google's portfolio would be catastrophic.

I think about this a lot and feel like we are in a horrid position. All of our core service and software is locked up in a handful of companies. For humanity and the future of software’s sake we need to go back to users of software owning their software, preferably by being free and open source. It hurts me as somebody who wants to make money off software, but SaaS is just a bad deal for everybody. My compromise is i…

I honestly think SaaS - which I think is more honestly described as "renting software" - is a business model that would have never worked if we hadn't curtailed so many threats to it with draconian laws

The most natural analogy for software is infrastructure. Lots of money to be made in building, maintaining, and supporting it, but as with any technology, the proposition of renting the right to use it is one that is obviously a bad deal for everyone but the rentier, and all the moreso for the fact that they can constantly make changes to the deal, including how the software functions, what one must pay for it, and what other benefits your use of it may extract from you on the behalf of its owner

I make money building software and think this feudal status quo is a terrible one that we should welcome the destruction of. Its benefits are ill-distributed and temporary, its drawbacks are dystopian, pervasive, and long-lasting, not only creating these awful deals for a wide swath of the economy, but also creating massive incentives for the rentiers in this equation to hoard competence in using these new technologies, stymying untold amounts of innovation and progress by making criminals out of tinkerers and discouraging even non-technical users from adapting them to their own needs

Re: A Post-Google World?

#62

Post by Animats »

beachy wrote: post #56
Animats wrote: post #41

Now we have to get rid of "Log on with Google" for non-Google properties. Google has to get out of the authentication-provider business. That allows Google to cross-link usages or other services. Need to raise this issue with the California PUC, about Waymo wanting a Google login.

Simple authentication is not as strong a chokehold as it appears, and most "log on with" integrations are very simple, just doing auth and passing across name and email. You wouldn't see e.g chatgpt having login with Google if it was such a threat.

You have to have a Google account. This is a problem if you cancelled Google.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#63

Post by patrickdavey »

adamm255 wrote: post #31
pestaa wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SaaS is not a bad deal when users pay for the service directly. And Google have provided tremendous value with their free tools. People forget what it was like before Gmail and Docs. I sincerely hope we can move away from their business model, but looks to me consumers rather pay with anything but their money.

So many people have never known any different. Gmail launched in 2004. Google Docs in 2006. So anyone who’s 18 today has never known a world without it. People don’t know what the save icon is in reality. Paying for things is interesting as media streaming is frequently valued by paying for it, collaboration and things like Google Maps not so much. I remember using a Palm Pilot with Tom Tom, and an old maps pack that…

For maps specifically, OpenStreetMap is free and better in a lot of ways (not least being able to easily download everything offline)

Re: A Post-Google World?

#64

Post by IncreasePosts »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #58
tmpz22 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If profits degrade for Google society will feel the impact pretty quickly. Think about how many schools rely on Google for Education for email, SSO, and Chromebooks. Think about people who rely on Google Maps, Sheets, Docs, and other loss-leading products. Think about all the data they scoop up in all their apps. Late game capitalism applied to Google's portfolio would be catastrophic.

We lived well without Google knowing everything we do, and I live well without almost any Google. I only have contact with Google on shitty-made websites, that for some reason I have to use. For everything Google does we have alternatives, and better ones than what Google is offering at that. So yes, society would quickly feel the positive impact of Google no longer being.

Why isn't everyone using these better alternatives already?

Re: A Post-Google World?

#65

Post by viraptor »

tmpz22 wrote: post #19
LegionMammal978 wrote: post #4

> At some point, they will give up and realize that the writing is on the wall for their current business model. I'd sooner think hell would freeze over than Google would ever 'give up' on its business model of its own accord. I can hardly imagine half of its services being viable as separate businesses. Which might well be a boon for competitors (especially in adtech), but not for any of Google's current employees o…

If profits degrade for Google society will feel the impact pretty quickly. Think about how many schools rely on Google for Education for email, SSO, and Chromebooks. Think about people who rely on Google Maps, Sheets, Docs, and other loss-leading products. Think about all the data they scoop up in all their apps. Late game capitalism applied to Google's portfolio would be catastrophic.

I don't think it's going to be bad at all. These are not irreplaceable things and they're not even the best options. Email, SSO can be found from many providers, or self hosted. Docs/sheets have lots of online and offline alternatives. There's at least 4 large maps providers including OpenStreetMaps. I think there would be some pain for a few months as other companies deal with the user influx and then we'd get over it.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#66

Post by izacus »

throwaway48540 wrote: post #8
talldayo wrote: post #5

> Neither case is finished. In the Epic Games case, Judge Donato is likely to come out with a proposed remedy shortly, which will basically force Google to allow other app stores to exist. Android users are all glancing at each other like John Travolta in Pulp Fiction right now.

Except for the Android users who actually tried not using Google Play and know it usually results in a "Play Services are required" error message.

Huawei phones are still popular in my part of the world and users can pretty much use everything on them, including the banking apps. In the end, increased popularity of non-Google phone just made developers not require Play Services.

I guess the only notable exception is the... YouTube app? So what are you talking about exactly?

Re: A Post-Google World?

#68

Post by viraptor »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #64
zelphirkalt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We lived well without Google knowing everything we do, and I live well without almost any Google. I only have contact with Google on shitty-made websites, that for some reason I have to use. For everything Google does we have alternatives, and better ones than what Google is offering at that. So yes, society would quickly feel the positive impact of Google no longer being.

Why isn't everyone using these better alternatives already?

Inertia and lack of knowledge. Alternatives to Gmail are better in ways that must people don't understand and/or care about. And even if they do, the improvement may not be worth the effort. But, they're definitely good enough if people have to make a switch for some reason.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#69

Post by viraptor »

coryrc wrote: post #59
gopkarthik wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Late game capitalism applied to Google's portfolio would be catastrophic. This is probably my biggest fear about the eventual fate of Google. The amount of data they have is staggering and would be very short-term profitable for PE firms looking to make a quick buck.

How would they make more money off it than what Google is already doing?

Google may not be a privacy champion, but they still have some rules. A PE company will do anything for more money if they're in the value extraction mode.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#70

Post by viraptor »

throwaway48540 wrote: post #8
talldayo wrote: post #5

> Neither case is finished. In the Epic Games case, Judge Donato is likely to come out with a proposed remedy shortly, which will basically force Google to allow other app stores to exist. Android users are all glancing at each other like John Travolta in Pulp Fiction right now.

Except for the Android users who actually tried not using Google Play and know it usually results in a "Play Services are required" error message.

https://microg.org/ can replace services as needed.
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