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A Post-Google World?

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Re: A Post-Google World?

#51

Post by dredmorbius »

jeffbee wrote: post #45
Animats wrote: post #41

Now we have to get rid of "Log on with Google" for non-Google properties. Google has to get out of the authentication-provider business. That allows Google to cross-link usages or other services. Need to raise this issue with the California PUC, about Waymo wanting a Google login.

Three assertions, no supporting argument. Why do "we" need to eradicate Google as an authentication service?

"That allows Google to cross-link usages or other services" is the justification, or argument, if you prefer.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#52

Post by toomuchtodo »

cogman10 wrote: post #46
dijit wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m reminded of a situation that happened in a small town in Sweden. Lots of boutique stores in the city centre moved into the newly created mall (due to the economics of malls being as they are)- the mall was also centrally located so: nothing lost. Almost immediately after this happened; another mall was built outside of town (requiring a car to get to), but as you might expect: rents were substantially cheaper. Al…

We sort of limp along with corporate cooperation on key technologies. Unfortunately, there are a number of places uncomfortably controlled/owned by single organizations. Think things like the npm repository. I wonder if something like a NIH style grant system would make sense to keep opensource software funded and supported without needing corporate support. I have xz on the mind. Would that have fallen under the con…

The Dept of Commerce should be funding such an effort.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#53

Post by create-username »

pestaa wrote: post #30
mbrumlow wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think about this a lot and feel like we are in a horrid position. All of our core service and software is locked up in a handful of companies. For humanity and the future of software’s sake we need to go back to users of software owning their software, preferably by being free and open source. It hurts me as somebody who wants to make money off software, but SaaS is just a bad deal for everybody. My compromise is i…

SaaS is not a bad deal when users pay for the service directly. And Google have provided tremendous value with their free tools. People forget what it was like before Gmail and Docs. I sincerely hope we can move away from their business model, but looks to me consumers rather pay with anything but their money.

Google used to be Writely and Google has improved it very little after the acquisition and integration.

We had Google docs before Google released it and it would have prevailed as an independent company if the authorities had had any interest in preventing trust and oligarchy

Re: A Post-Google World?

#54

Post by marcosdumay »

wiseowise wrote: post #11
throwaway48540 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the Android users who actually tried not using Google Play and know it usually results in a "Play Services are required" error message.

An application written using Play Services requires Play Services - shocking.

[flagged]

Re: A Post-Google World?

#55

Post by saulpw »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #36
mbrumlow wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think about this a lot and feel like we are in a horrid position. All of our core service and software is locked up in a handful of companies. For humanity and the future of software’s sake we need to go back to users of software owning their software, preferably by being free and open source. It hurts me as somebody who wants to make money off software, but SaaS is just a bad deal for everybody. My compromise is i…

> All of our core service and software is locked up in a handful of companies. > For humanity and the future of software’s sake we need to go back to users of software owning their software, preferably by being free and open source. This sounds like a decent plan. Why not start executing the first step of it today?

What is the first step? Surely you can't mean the author using open source software (which they might already), or writing new open-source software like they envision? In the face of the societal changes they are talking about, one person will accomplish nothing. So the first step must be writing about it, trying to convince other people, or maybe developing their ideas so that instead of just a goal, they have a reasonable mechanism to get there.

Or is that the actual first step to make a societal-level change? Maybe it's better to make millions of dollars under the existing regime, and then found or fund a think-tank to get certain politicians elected.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#56

Post by beachy »

Animats wrote: post #41

Now we have to get rid of "Log on with Google" for non-Google properties. Google has to get out of the authentication-provider business. That allows Google to cross-link usages or other services. Need to raise this issue with the California PUC, about Waymo wanting a Google login.

Simple authentication is not as strong a chokehold as it appears, and most "log on with" integrations are very simple, just doing auth and passing across name and email.

You wouldn't see e.g chatgpt having login with Google if it was such a threat.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#57

Post by walterbell »

> John Maynard Keynes had penned a private letter to Franklin Delano Roosevelt about business leaders. He wrote, “You could do anything you liked with them if you would treat them (even the big ones), not as wolves or tigers, but as domestic animals by nature, even though they have been badly brought up and not trained as you would wish.” FDR tamed big business. Anti-monopolists today are nowhere near that level of accomplishment broadly speaking, as we don’t have a political consensus. But in a few areas, we can start to see the outlines of what a world run with some element of the public interest in mind might look like.

How is "public interest" defined after Citizens United, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC?

Re: A Post-Google World?

#58

Post by zelphirkalt »

tmpz22 wrote: post #19
LegionMammal978 wrote: post #4

> At some point, they will give up and realize that the writing is on the wall for their current business model. I'd sooner think hell would freeze over than Google would ever 'give up' on its business model of its own accord. I can hardly imagine half of its services being viable as separate businesses. Which might well be a boon for competitors (especially in adtech), but not for any of Google's current employees o…

If profits degrade for Google society will feel the impact pretty quickly. Think about how many schools rely on Google for Education for email, SSO, and Chromebooks. Think about people who rely on Google Maps, Sheets, Docs, and other loss-leading products. Think about all the data they scoop up in all their apps. Late game capitalism applied to Google's portfolio would be catastrophic.

We lived well without Google knowing everything we do, and I live well without almost any Google. I only have contact with Google on shitty-made websites, that for some reason I have to use. For everything Google does we have alternatives, and better ones than what Google is offering at that. So yes, society would quickly feel the positive impact of Google no longer being.

Re: A Post-Google World?

#59

Post by coryrc »

gopkarthik wrote: post #43
tmpz22 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If profits degrade for Google society will feel the impact pretty quickly. Think about how many schools rely on Google for Education for email, SSO, and Chromebooks. Think about people who rely on Google Maps, Sheets, Docs, and other loss-leading products. Think about all the data they scoop up in all their apps. Late game capitalism applied to Google's portfolio would be catastrophic.

> Late game capitalism applied to Google's portfolio would be catastrophic. This is probably my biggest fear about the eventual fate of Google. The amount of data they have is staggering and would be very short-term profitable for PE firms looking to make a quick buck.

How would they make more money off it than what Google is already doing?
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