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Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

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Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#211
I have a different view on this, maybe it's because I'm in the depths of burnout. I don't think I am - I walked away from my career in tech about 2 years ago, and it still feels like the right thing to do. Threads like this do make me think and question it a bit, so feedback appreciated.

The essence is I suspect there's a perfect correlation between the increased mention/awareness of burnout, and the stupid in-your-face selfish, aggressive capitalism that inspires many in VC backed tech leadership positions.

Everyone I've personally known who's experienced burnout has typically been an ultra-high achiever: they have a personality type that just wants the world to be better for everyone, and they go and try and do that. They do tech because that's what they've done since they could walk/talk. They're star employees when being themselves, but being themselves becomes impossible to sustain in an environment where a bunch of people just want to selfishly improve their own world without caring about others.

When I think about it this way, I then worry about the world we're creating by telling people with burnout to be more selfish, rather than telling the leaders and environments that lead to burnout that they're the problem.

Maybe that's all burnout talking though.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% This is so important. I have a 3yo and wife, I currently work for a series-A startup - It's incredibly easy to do things out of hours, answer messages, train, lab things up, etc... But at the end of the day that is a part of my career. So except for when I'm traveling for work, I don't do a GD thing past 5pm, unless i choose to. When I choose to, it's likely because a lot of my team is in IST time zone rather th…

I am trying to move to a country where this is a reality... I just need a life outside of work (and some quiet and peace and fewer people around me all the time) I want to be able to sit down in the park, stroll around the neighbourhood, ride cycle, swim, cook, etc without the worry of job looming over my head all the time. I want to live for myself.

I say this as a person who emigrated away from the US in my late 30's...

The hedonic treadmill exists in all countries, stepping off it is a personal priority and discipline regardless of where you live.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#213
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did it for me wasn't the fact that the project had no end in sight, It was the fact that every time I made an effort to move towards that point, the boss would pull in a dickhead architect (let's call him Huy) who would then veto my entire roadmap. This happened many times, each time I felt more and more worthless; by the time I eventually left Bravura I was suicidal.

Too relatable, few things worse than a half-committed architect constantly tripping you over...

Someone else shat the bed on the first project I worked on for the company.

He blamed me, so for the next four years took every opportunity to had to fuck me over regardless of what I was trying to get done.

I once had to get through six weeks of work in a month (what need for testing?), because he told me last minute about major vital changes that were needed in the next release with zero advanced warning.

This was in addition to my standard workload.

After I somehow managed to pull it off, he then informed me that the changes weren't that important and weren't required for the release.

Yeah, fuck that guy.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#214

I've been dealing with burnout multiplied by cancer in the family. My spouse was diagnosed back in 2020. It was tough and unmanageable until I got back to P.Cubensis and started microdosing it just to stay alive. I didn't go to stratosphere, and not a fan of a mAcrodose. But mIcrodose helped me to rewire my brain. Can't recommend it enough. Don't do P.Cubensis though, since P.Natalensis is the better, easier choice i…

I've met several Americans who are into self-medicating like this. One guy was talking about his 500k USD salary at Facebook, so clearly successful, while obsessing about where to source drugs, so clearly struggling.

Have you considered that there may be permanent changes to your brain, that you're not able to perceive, similar to the radical shift in personality we've observed in Elon Musk?

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#215
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! And Christianity to this day is still very and subtly misogynistic. For example, why does a woman need to give up her last name when marrying?

Not arguing that Christianity and other religions aren't misogynistic - I mean, seriously, there is a borderline unfathomable amount of serious misogynistic baggage there. However, on the point of last names, I feel the urge to point out that I personally know several , very devout and traditional, catholic couples who kept their last names in wedlock.

We have records of patronymics as old as the writing itself. It's hard / impossible / pointless to decouple religion from culture though.

On a slightly different note: Hammurabi's name means literally "his uncle is a healer" (related to Arabic عم (ʕamm) meaning paternal uncle, and the latter part to rabbi).

I my mind there's a mildly funny* movie where Hammurabi, the person who created/codified the foundations of our law, someone remembered for 1000s of years... was an insecure overachiever. "You conquered the Elamites? And Larsa? Oh, that's cute my boy. Now get a real job like your uncle who is a doctor!"

* (for me, my bar is low)

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#216

Giving you a big hug. I have been through really rough periods and as my health took a big toll, the only means I had to recovery was to move away from crazy startup life. Gradually I understood that, maybe, there is a better balance. I still want to learn, grow, solve problems, dream big. Instead of making 3 year plans, I started making 10 year plans. I started taking care of my health, like it is the most important…

I did roughly the same thing; I live in a small village in protected nature. I still run startups, but I sit at my stream in my forest working for them. Life is cheap here so I was able to buy a house and the land; when I feel overwhelmed, I can just throw my laptop and phone out and live out my life tinkering in the house, the land and on hardware. But since I moved (long ago) I haven't had that feeling again.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#218

I've been dealing with burnout multiplied by cancer in the family. My spouse was diagnosed back in 2020. It was tough and unmanageable until I got back to P.Cubensis and started microdosing it just to stay alive. I didn't go to stratosphere, and not a fan of a mAcrodose. But mIcrodose helped me to rewire my brain. Can't recommend it enough. Don't do P.Cubensis though, since P.Natalensis is the better, easier choice i…

I've met several Americans who are into self-medicating like this. One guy was talking about his 500k USD salary at Facebook, so clearly successful, while obsessing about where to source drugs, so clearly struggling. Have you considered that there may be permanent changes to your brain, that you're not able to perceive, similar to the radical shift in personality we've observed in Elon Musk?

> Have you considered that there may be permanent changes to your brain, that you're not able to perceive, similar to the radical shift in personality we've observed in Elon Musk?

I think people undergo permanent changes to their brain that they can't perceive, all the time. Hacker News and other social media definitely change your brain. So does having more wealth than you can conceivably spend in lifetime. I suspect the latter is more directly responsible for Elon Musk's trash personality than microdosing.

While I am a strong advocate for legalizing hallucinogens and empathogens, and am certain there are clinical uses for at least some of them which we are in the early days of understanding, I'm not as convinced by the science on microdosing (which specifically refers to sub-perceptual doses). But with so many people who seem to benefit from it, I support people who find it helpful doing so, even if it's just placebo effect.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#219
post #93

Many of us have experienced what you describe and it sucks. I hope you're able to sort it out and feel better about things sooner than later. That's generally the case. But you and others should keep on mind that "burnout" is not a very precise or actionable word and thinking of your current challenges as being products of burnout doesn't give you much traction on what you can do about not feeling well or what extern…

You can get burnt out while not neglecting any of those things. Going to bed at 10pm with fresh sheets after a nice healthy dinner with friends is not able to offset an unlimited amount of workplace stress, although it's surprisingly effective. Once you're in a slump you'll probably start neglecting things, but that's getting the causation the wrong way around.

You are maybe right at the begining, but then I think it's both. It becomes a negative feedback loop.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#220
Fellow burn-out, here. For about 3/4 years, I have noticed a massive increase in my Depression and Generalized Anxiety Disorder. My wife has also noticed my personality changes that have occured, and my general loss of interest in things that used to bring me joy.

I was diagnosed with Depression and GAD in 2000 after a fairly long and drawn out process that told me something I already knew. In the nearly 25 since, I have been hyperaware of the impact exteenal factors have on my conditions and over-all state of being.

In the event that it helps anyone, even a single person reading this, here is what I have learned:

1. It's okay to walk away from a toxic work environment. I have done a lot of work in factories over the years. Between the harsh conditions, unrealistic expectations and juvenile masculinity, I was getting mentally beat to a pulp because I thought I was supposed to uphold the status quo in those places. The status quo, as it turns out, is set by people who are more miserable than you and want to drag you to Hell with them. Let them go and walk away. Being driven to the point of drug abuse (or worse) is not worth any paycheck.

2. You are greater than the sum of your parts. You are not your job, your hobbies, your clothes, etc, but an amalgamation of all those things that is not necessarily unique, but a whole and contributing person, and that cannot be taken from you unless YOU allow it to be.

3. Avoid seeking reason for everything outside your control. The sooner you accept the Universe has no plan that you can comprehend, the better. It is a chaotic, irrational place from our tiny perspective and not a useful line of inquiry. Instead, your energies can be turned to your reason for your own actions and reactions, the only things you can really control.

4. Be firm but fair with self-honesty. Your faults are also opprtunities to improve, not road blocks. This will ne exceptionally difficult, but your strengths will see you through. My personal rule is to never stop tryinh to ne better than I was yesterday, for falling stagnant is no different than being dead.

5. Leave your spaces better than you found them...not just for other people, but also for yourself. When we take care of our immediate environments, we tend to feel more focused and energized. My depression stints are often followed by house-cleaning, and it surprises me every single time how cluttered and disoriented I allowed things to get.

I believe people with Anxiety and Depression are more prone to burnout than others, and in the societies that tend to demand more of us than we can give, be it as workers, lovers, consumers or citizens, we are a particularly vulnerable population. That means we must fight harder.

My burnout has taken me to dark, dark places, and there are lights that keep me going. Right now, I am mustering what evergy I can to help my son learn to cope with these things while teaching myself new skills so I can make a move into a career that will be more rewarding and inline with my personal ethos.

What works for you? What helps with burnout, and the anxiety/depression that tends to come with it?

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