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Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

clojure.org

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Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#21

Post by souenzzo »

haolez wrote: post #5
tgerdin wrote: post #2

Looks like a pretty solid release, very happy that Clojure is still going strong!

Is it going strong? I'm evaluating it for a new project. I'm considering it together with Clara[0]. However, it does give a vibe that it's not as mainstream as it was before and that the ecosystem is more sparse than what is once was. I'm not trying to troll. I want to choose it. It seems like a good engineering decision to me, but if it's nosediving in popularity and contributors, this might bite me back in the near…

Reagent is the clojurescript wrapper to react Reagent has the same API and the same best practices since 2014 Meanwhile, react changed from creactClass to extend Class. From classes to function components.

Many clojure libraries are simply done. There is no reason to commit everyday to a project.

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#23

Post by rr808 »

haolez wrote: post #5
tgerdin wrote: post #2

Looks like a pretty solid release, very happy that Clojure is still going strong!

Is it going strong? I'm evaluating it for a new project. I'm considering it together with Clara[0]. However, it does give a vibe that it's not as mainstream as it was before and that the ecosystem is more sparse than what is once was. I'm not trying to troll. I want to choose it. It seems like a good engineering decision to me, but if it's nosediving in popularity and contributors, this might bite me back in the near…

Its dead in the water. Sure, some people like it for their private projects and I'm sure there are some commercial products but I wouldn't touch it. I dont particularly like Scala either but at least it has Spark which means it'll be around for decades.

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#24

Post by asa400 »

thom wrote: post #15
haolez wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it going strong? I'm evaluating it for a new project. I'm considering it together with Clara[0]. However, it does give a vibe that it's not as mainstream as it was before and that the ecosystem is more sparse than what is once was. I'm not trying to troll. I want to choose it. It seems like a good engineering decision to me, but if it's nosediving in popularity and contributors, this might bite me back in the near…

What you’re seeing sounds familiar but definitely not new. I’ve used Clojure professionally for 15 years and at no point in that time have you been guaranteed critical mass around any library or framework. Clojure has always been a small ecosystem of high variance people and projects. You get things like Rama and Electric which are bold reimaginings of what systems could look like, but you also get a lot of short liv…

I don’t do much Clojure anymore (I wish I did!) but agreed on all points. The JVM interop is such a huge, huge advantage that it’s hard to express to people who aren’t used it.

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#25

Post by contrarian1234 »

This is really a massive release with many cool new features

My personal favorite is add-libs

You can now write single file demos or minimal examples for issues. Really lowers the friction to share small runnable snippets with people

You can also actually use it to demo Java libraries as well without all the Java boilerplate. Just poke around in the REPL and paste code into a comment on HN or wherever and anyone can replicate your "setup" and get it running exactly the same. No need to clone a repo or anything

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#26

Post by koito17 »

I thought they were going to hold this until Clojure/conj 2024. No particular reason to believe so (besides Clojure 1.10 being released around the same time as Clojure/conj 2021 and the Datomic-becoming-free announcement being done at the very start of Clojure/conj 2023).

Still waiting on spec2, though... for now I am working around rigidity of specs by using Malli but it really isn't a first-class citizen in Clojure (mostly due to inability to check macros, and this is by design of the Clojure compiler). But you can emulate the ideas of schema/select by manipulating malli schemas as data.

The changes for functional interfaces also means we no longer have to maintain utility macros like

  (defmacro ->Consumer [f]
    `(reify java.util.function.Consumer
       (accept [this arg#]
         (~f arg#))))
and instead just pass functions directly.

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#27

Post by geokon »

haolez wrote: post #5
tgerdin wrote: post #2

Looks like a pretty solid release, very happy that Clojure is still going strong!

Is it going strong? I'm evaluating it for a new project. I'm considering it together with Clara[0]. However, it does give a vibe that it's not as mainstream as it was before and that the ecosystem is more sparse than what is once was. I'm not trying to troll. I want to choose it. It seems like a good engineering decision to me, but if it's nosediving in popularity and contributors, this might bite me back in the near…

I'd also look at

https://github.com/oakes/odoyle-rules/

I think the userbase is slowly shrinking, but I'd personally use Clojure even if all Clojure developers disappeared tomorrow. It's not built on shifting sand as the JVM is stable. If you need really niche/cutting edge stuff you're probably going to need to dip into Java or JS interop anyway

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#28

Post by MarkMarine »

This is a wonderful language I've only just started paying attention to, watching the talks from Rich on YouTube have ruined things I loved (like Either types.) I'm struggling with how to introduce it into my company without recommending my colleagues follow my path of working through 3 books and then watching most of the conj talks from the last 12 years on 1.75x speed, while building a personal project and re-implementing a couple of services I work with every day in it... but the lessons around simplicity I think are so critical, I'm going to find a way.

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#29

Post by chii »

MarkMarine wrote: post #28

This is a wonderful language I've only just started paying attention to, watching the talks from Rich on YouTube have ruined things I loved (like Either types.) I'm struggling with how to introduce it into my company without recommending my colleagues follow my path of working through 3 books and then watching most of the conj talks from the last 12 years on 1.75x speed, while building a personal project and re-imple…

Find the least important project that one person can take on, and have that be the prototype for the clojure stack.

Ideally, use someone well versed in the tech stack - otherwise, you're taking on double risk of a new tech stack plus unfamiliarity. This prototype needs to demonstrate the value of the clojure stack - which has to have a business value (aka, speed/ease of maintenance etc).

Convince the decision makers to use clojure after the above prototype showed value, and use it to extrapolate value for other projects. This will then require a transition from doing the project, to teaching others (who might not know clojure at all). You cannot rely on just telling people to watch videos or read books - they won't do it, and it will cause failure in subsequent projects.

You will have to hand hold, until the newbie "clicks". Unfortuantely, this is an uphill battle, because management will always want to hire for the "regular/normal" tech stack, and will have trouble finding clojure-ready people. So the company will continue to have to invest in teaching it to new hires, which is a drain that could tank the clojure move.

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#30

Post by eduction »

koito17 wrote: post #26

I thought they were going to hold this until Clojure/conj 2024. No particular reason to believe so (besides Clojure 1.10 being released around the same time as Clojure/conj 2021 and the Datomic-becoming-free announcement being done at the very start of Clojure/conj 2023). Still waiting on spec2, though... for now I am working around rigidity of specs by using Malli but it really isn't a first-class citizen in Clojure…

What do you mean by “inability to check macros”? You can s/fdef macros with spec and it checks the calls at compile time. In fact Clojure core uses spec to check macro calls as you can see in the stack trace sometimes when you call one wrong. Do you mean something else?
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