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Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

economist.com

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Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#401

Post by thomassmith65 »

arresin wrote: post #374
_heimdall wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ignores historic examples of societies with multiple cultures, religions, etc living peacefully. It doesn't always end well, but are you proposing the solution is to ensure that societies never try?

> This ignores historic examples of societies with multiple cultures, religions, etc living peacefully. Can you give me some examples? My own knowledge of history goes like this: proximity (between cultures / ethnicities) = war.

Pretty much every nation on earth contains multiple ethnicities. That's the reality but generally foreigners are ignorant of these sorts of details for faraway places - eg: Sami in Sweden, Druze in Israel, Catalonians in Spain, and on and on.

So, as far as I am aware, any nation that is currently at peace can serve as an example.

Maybe it's the other way around: the more any two groups get along, the less we consider them meaningfully distinct.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#402

Post by dagaci »

dotancohen wrote: post #361
dagaci wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the situation in Sudan got worse so that it exceeded the situation in Gaza. It has been deteriorating for many months since April 2023. The collapse of the Sudan is not directly being enflamed directly by any western power compared to the Gaza collapse. So the Sudan conflict is less interesting to us. The Sudan collapse is being enflamed by regional powers where the UAE is funding the Janjaweed (who are officiall…

> Yes the situation in Sudan got worse so that it exceeded the situation in Gaza. It has been deteriorating for many months since April 2023. During what time period was the famine in Gaza worse than the famine in Sudan?

Analysts have spoken about the situation in Sudan over time and the Risks. The talk of a real critical famine being in effect is recent.

Just to be clear the famine is deliberately being caused by occupying g*nocidal Janjaweed army (the RSF), they are besieging towns across the region destroy to prevent food production, blocking supplies and trade.

Famine is always deliberate and caused by military and political decisions.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#403

Post by Aeolun »

yhavr wrote: post #120
Aeolun wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like that’s a bit like saying it’s fine for an adult to kick a kid. The kid was asking for it after all, even if the adult was never in any danger.

So you say that palestinians as a society are politically incapacitated like kids, and should be governed by some external authority until their society matures enough to self-govern?

I didn’t say anything like that. That’s what you heard.

In the analogy you make I think it’s more likely we need to call CPS.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#404

Post by Aeolun »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #254
squigz wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've managed to generally stop doing lots of things that one might say are 'part of human nature' - because the most important part of human nature is our ability to reflect on our nature and improve it.

It is not that we've stopped, we've made it harder in some parts of the world, by adopting a liberal form of government and splitting powers. Remember what happened just few years back with Trump and the assault on congress. Or extremists gaining power, it's not that we've improved, it's that people had enough to eat. But it's slowly changed also here, you can be pragmatic or starving, but not both. But other democra…

> you can be pragmatic or starving, but not both

I think starving people are often very pragmatic? There’s a great deal that makes perfect sense if you’ve got nothing to lose.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#405

Post by marxisttemp »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #335
marxisttemp wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ll find it is the right wing who find themselves invariably attracted to war. Unless you’re using “the left” to mean “neoliberals”, as seems to be common among the American right, in which case let me refer you to the first paragraph (since the American Democratic Party is by all measures a right wing party).

I find the left wing in general (not just US) to be etatist. That makes it interventionist in everyone's life by definition.

Interventionism refers to foreign policy. The right wing is also statist, they’d just prefer to use the power of the state to hammer others down rather than lift them up.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#406

Post by ein0p »

shadowgovt wrote: post #366
ein0p wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And do remind us, who is funding the bombing of Gaza?

https://afsc.org/gaza-genocide-companies Kind of an international effort.

It’s an “international effort” in the same way the second Iraq war was. The US is funding the lion’s share of this genocide

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#407

Post by valval »

grecy wrote: post #22

I am very sad to watch this situation. I spent 3 weeks driving my 4x4 through Sudan in early 2019 [1], just a month before they finally got rid of Al-Bashir, and it was incredible. The people of Sudan were some of the kindest and friendliest I have ever encountered on the planet. When I asked for directions to buy bread and it turned out to be complicated, the following morning locals brought a bag of fresh-baked bre…

And your status as a rich and white curiosity played no part in this?

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#408

Post by valval »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #356
sorokod wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vultures are there as they always are in such circumstances, what is your point?

That the people shipping weapons to one side or another are not merely vultures but foreigners who nonetheless have an interest in the civil war's outcome, making it not solely Sudanese vs Sudanese

I think it might be a bit more transactional than that. Arms sellers sell arms, no matter the side.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#409

Post by valval »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #401
arresin wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This ignores historic examples of societies with multiple cultures, religions, etc living peacefully. Can you give me some examples? My own knowledge of history goes like this: proximity (between cultures / ethnicities) = war.

Pretty much every nation on earth contains multiple ethnicities. That's the reality but generally foreigners are ignorant of these sorts of details for faraway places - eg: Sami in Sweden, Druze in Israel, Catalonians in Spain, and on and on. So, as far as I am aware, any nation that is currently at peace can serve as an example. Maybe it's the other way around: the more any two groups get along, the less we consider…

War or genocide is just an end, not some perpetual state of affairs. The negative effects of diversity can be seen everywhere, and in places where it’s not seen there is no real diversity— as in the seemingly distinguishing traits of the parties are significantly overridden by commonalities.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#410

Post by valval »

_heimdall wrote: post #393
arresin wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This ignores historic examples of societies with multiple cultures, religions, etc living peacefully. Can you give me some examples? My own knowledge of history goes like this: proximity (between cultures / ethnicities) = war.

Plenty of countries and societies have a mix of different cultures and religions without it triggering a war anything like what Sudan is going through today. I have lived in the US and the Netherlands. I can say both have a mix of both cultures and religions without widespread famine and bloody civil wars.

I imagine Sudan was the same before the famine and bloody civil wars started.
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