31–40 of 372 posts
>If the model is a good one, detractors say it can’t be replicated outside of the Basque Country, and there’s some truth to that. The author doesn't speculate why, but I'd guess it's partly due to Basque ethnic solidarity. Mondragon sounds a lot like the kind of late 1800s / early 1900s syndicalism that later evolved into Italian fascism and German National Socialism. Of course, another big "collectivist capitalism"…
I read about Mondragon in Pickety's works. That's why I went to Mondragon. I was deeply disappointed, the city and the surroundings look very sad. It reminded me a lot of the former DDR (german "democratic" republic which was under russian control).
But lots of employees live and work in much nicer spots like the San Sebastián area.
Many engineering and hardware companies all around the Basque Country are owned by Mondragón.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In some sense, corporate employees that get some form of equity as part of their compensation are more literally worker-owners. As soon as a worker leaves or sells their shares, these shares aren't worker-owned anymore and the interests of their owner can quickly diverge from the ones of a worker. That's roughly what a coop fixes I think.
I can kinda see how one can argue that this is a feature rather than a bug, but I still think this points to the more distinctive feature in these coops being democratic governance of workers rather than ownership. I own shares of past companies I've worked at, but I don't have any representation in how the company is run. It doesn't matter if my interests have diverged from current workers, because I have no influen…
It's a shame there's not a YC like incubator for tech worker coops, cut out the VCs and have milestone based funding in exchange for a percentage of future profits that would be reinvested in future projects.
Another problem is law. At this point it favors the common ownership forms of business. Starting a coop is hence much harder than it should be. This is what i think where the "it's a shame" make most sense. We should make w-coops easier to start and give them tax benefits as they are on the long run much more beneficial/ less detrimental to society.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In some sense, corporate employees that get some form of equity as part of their compensation are more literally worker-owners. As soon as a worker leaves or sells their shares, these shares aren't worker-owned anymore and the interests of their owner can quickly diverge from the ones of a worker. That's roughly what a coop fixes I think.
I can kinda see how one can argue that this is a feature rather than a bug, but I still think this points to the more distinctive feature in these coops being democratic governance of workers rather than ownership. I own shares of past companies I've worked at, but I don't have any representation in how the company is run. It doesn't matter if my interests have diverged from current workers, because I have no influen…
yes and no, i’d call the distinction collective ownership. you can sell your shares (by quitting), or you can stay and participate democratically. but you can’t do both, and that protects your say in the company, preventing investors from overruling worker-owners.
> i have no influence
neither do the current workers. the issue isn’t retail investors, but the ones with board seats. if boards only had one seat for an investor, that’d be one thing, but usually workers only get a single seat, if any.
> protect current workers’ democratic governance
you could do this with preferred shares, voting shares, etc. investor shares are non voting, voting shares can only be owned by workers, etc. you still have to counter their concentration though.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
More importantly, a message lost on an audience who largely is dreaming of being one of the exploiters.
Yeah, but my blood sugar was pretty low when I wrote that comment so I may have been more sarcastic than necessary.
I was mildly critiquing the accuracy.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Basque country is one of the richest regions in Spain, which is already a highly developed country. Not sure what you are talking about.
I'm from Spain, so I'm quite sure of what I'm talking about. Spain might be a highly developed country, but its gdp per capita is not too high compared to the likes of Germany, UK, France, Denmark, US, et al. Basque country is, again, rich because it has an special tax treatment and could be considered a tax heaven to some extent.
I'd say its a well developed region comparable to Northern Italy. Both were badly hit by the Euro. Had they kept their own currencies, they'd be closer to Sweden or Southern Germany.
The difference between Mondragon, the kibbutzim, and other successful examples of collective labor, and the Soviet system, is precisely that the former are not governments, and operate in a capitalist system of property rights and free markets (in a practical rather than spherical cow sense of that term). I'm all for more cooperatives, it's a good model. Operating in a system which doesn't compel that form of organiz…
I've heard it put as "Socialism works great, as long as the socialist community gets to decide who is included."
The difference between Mondragon, the kibbutzim, and other successful examples of collective labor, and the Soviet system, is precisely that the former are not governments, and operate in a capitalist system of property rights and free markets (in a practical rather than spherical cow sense of that term). I'm all for more cooperatives, it's a good model. Operating in a system which doesn't compel that form of organiz…
This slogan was abolished when more central planning took over, and the word soviet become more associated with the central govt/ the state.
>If the model is a good one, detractors say it can’t be replicated outside of the Basque Country, and there’s some truth to that. The author doesn't speculate why, but I'd guess it's partly due to Basque ethnic solidarity. Mondragon sounds a lot like the kind of late 1800s / early 1900s syndicalism that later evolved into Italian fascism and German National Socialism. Of course, another big "collectivist capitalism"…