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Escaping from Anaconda's Stranglehold on macOS

paulromer.net

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Re: Escaping from Anaconda's Stranglehold on macOS

#91

Post by dumbo-octopus »

adolph wrote: post #87
dumbo-octopus wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I recently had to debug my gf’s entire work computer setup getting fubar’d from installing a pip package at a user level that conflicted with the name of some package used internally by the 10k+/seat/year software the company devices have installed. Proximal cause? The installer “helpfully” failed over to installing at the user level when she didn’t have permissions to write to the place she told it to. Root cau…

> package used internally by the 10k+/seat/year software the company devices have installed Sounds like a skill issue that shouldn’t be seen in “10k+/seat/year software.” I wonder what other fails are in it.

Well it constantly crashes and requires every shop to develop their own half-broken way of interfacing between it and other industry-standard software, but at least ~half the pixels you’ve seen in any modern movie or tv show have been touched by it at one point or another. So that’s interesting.

Re: Escaping from Anaconda's Stranglehold on macOS

#92

Post by mistrial9 »

exe34 wrote: post #67
latchkey wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic... we might as well stop teaching math because kids are never going to become mathematicians.

are you thinking arithmetic, trigonometry, geometry, analysis or statistics?

statistics is not mathematics -- real

Re: Escaping from Anaconda's Stranglehold on macOS

#93

Post by abdullahkhalids »

apetresc wrote: post #69

> 10. What Changes When You Are Free > You will not be forced to work inside something known as a “virtual environment.” Oof, this terrible advice cancels out an otherwise reasonable post. Beginners who don't know what they're doing are the last people who should be `pip install -r requirements.txt`-ing into the system Python the way this article is recommending. That's not only going to make working on multiple proj…

I teach using python. You should try explaining virtual environments to students, most of them with no programming experience, or any real notion of the state of a computer system. I do, because we recommend students use them. Every class consists of endless debugging of student systems.

After that you might understand the OP's viewpoint.

Re: Escaping from Anaconda's Stranglehold on macOS

#94

Post by geysersam »

dumbo-octopus wrote: post #91
adolph wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> package used internally by the 10k+/seat/year software the company devices have installed Sounds like a skill issue that shouldn’t be seen in “10k+/seat/year software.” I wonder what other fails are in it.

Well it constantly crashes and requires every shop to develop their own half-broken way of interfacing between it and other industry-standard software, but at least ~half the pixels you’ve seen in any modern movie or tv show have been touched by it at one point or another. So that’s interesting.

Thats extremely fascinating. What's it used for?

Re: Escaping from Anaconda's Stranglehold on macOS

#95

Post by rbanffy »

hkdfgdfg wrote: post #75
apetresc wrote: post #69

> 10. What Changes When You Are Free > You will not be forced to work inside something known as a “virtual environment.” Oof, this terrible advice cancels out an otherwise reasonable post. Beginners who don't know what they're doing are the last people who should be `pip install -r requirements.txt`-ing into the system Python the way this article is recommending. That's not only going to make working on multiple proj…

I have never broken my Python installation on Windows (official installer) despite recklessly installing anything. If I had broken it, I would have just uninstalled and reinstalled. While not familiar with macOS (topic of this article), I think the Mac installer works the same. On Debian of course you can cause great damage because the system Python is used for critical system functions. This is silly, I think the sy…

You won’t break a machine by installing Python packages on an OS that never uses Python for anything.

Re: Escaping from Anaconda's Stranglehold on macOS

#98

Post by bsder »

mplanchard wrote: post #39
lijok wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a myth, Nix is incredibly complicated to get into and is actively hostile towards its users with the abysmal DSL and documentation. Every company we’ve tried to introduce it in has failed to adopt it primarily due to its incredibly steep learning curve

It is quite complicated to understand or to set up, yes, but I agree that it is easy to use. We use it at work for our dev environments. Like two or three of us are able to actually add packages, adjust nix configs, etc. Everyone else just runs `direnv allow` and automatically gets everything they need to build and run out software.

> It is quite complicated to understand or to set up, yes, but I agree that it is easy to use.

The problem is that everything works--until it doesn't. And then nobody knows how to fix it.

You wind up needing a single person who serves as local "nix tech support" who then hates life because he's a high end devloper dealing with nix n00bs all day long.

Re: Escaping from Anaconda's Stranglehold on macOS

#99

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #78
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pip has gone down the shithole with its preaching about venvs. It's my computer. I'll install to site-packages if I damn well want to.

What I usually do is make a venv using pip, then use that venv to install poetry in it, because I don't want to clutter my system with outdated poetry package. Then use Poetry to install packages inside the venv. So the pip part is merely for bootstrapping.

You shouldn't have to launch a sub-shell to run a script interpreter. That is exemplary of how nobody in the Python leadership can fix their perpetual packaging f-ups of the last two decades and are now just sticking their collective heads in the sand.

Re: Escaping from Anaconda's Stranglehold on macOS

#100

Post by freeopinion »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #93
apetresc wrote: post #69

> 10. What Changes When You Are Free > You will not be forced to work inside something known as a “virtual environment.” Oof, this terrible advice cancels out an otherwise reasonable post. Beginners who don't know what they're doing are the last people who should be `pip install -r requirements.txt`-ing into the system Python the way this article is recommending. That's not only going to make working on multiple proj…

I teach using python. You should try explaining virtual environments to students, most of them with no programming experience, or any real notion of the state of a computer system. I do, because we recommend students use them. Every class consists of endless debugging of student systems. After that you might understand the OP's viewpoint.

After that I wonder why people think Python is a good choice to teach as a first experience in programming. Virtual environments is actually my biggest gripe with Python.

I think it is interesting to consider why Python is so popular despite such fiascos. The answers can be very informative but can also be giant red flags.

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