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Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

economist.com

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Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#261

Post by Jensson »

marxisttemp wrote: post #253
AdrianB1 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an excellent option if you are willing to accept hundreds of millions of people will die in the process and that it will take a hundred years or more for that to happen. Development does not happen overnight and it takes a toll. That being said, my impression is that the people leaning left in politics are strongly against non-interventionism. This means it will become a political issue in the countries that…

I think you’ll find it is the right wing who find themselves invariably attracted to war. Unless you’re using “the left” to mean “neoliberals”, as seems to be common among the American right, in which case let me refer you to the first paragraph (since the American Democratic Party is by all measures a right wing party).

> since the American Democratic Party is by all measures a right wing party

Only fiscally, if you look at social issues they are very left.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#262

Post by istinetz »

JohnMakin wrote: post #257
csomar wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’d personally hazard a guess nothing short of military intervention can stop something like this Please don't guess, then? The famine started because of a military intervention gone south. The reality is that the Sudanese are a victim of circumstance. A war between some Arab rulers over who controls the Sudan.

Luckily my thoughts on this site don’t dictate what international governments do, but thanks for your input?

If you don't want your opinion to be critiqued, you can simply not post.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#263

Post by Jensson »

NewJazz wrote: post #256
Jensson wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil wars tend to create anarchy, it is the anarchy that causes the famine wars themselves doesn't inherently do it. For example the American civil war didn't create anarchy, the states continued to function on both sides so there were no mass starvation events.

Anarchy is when two factions try to govern instead of one? It is an interesting take. I can't say it makes sense.

Yes, if nobody currently governs then it is an anarchy. That some people try to establish order doesn't change that currently there is none.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#264

Post by lazyasciiart »

Jensson wrote: post #231
crop_rotation wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mentioned this elsewhere as well, no kind of planning saves one from bad economic policy. Post Deng China has a very very good record of bringing prosperity (and China still central planning).

> and China still central planning Every country has some central planning, China doesn't have much more central planning today than your average European country. Or do you believe some CCP central planner decided to put in scantily clad anime girls in games from China? China today is very capitalist, they lack democracy, not capitalism.

I would probably focus on the government-mandated construction of new cities and control over which citizens go to university and where they can live, and that there is a wide spectrum of control between the USA and central planners managing the graphics in video game production.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#265

Post by throwaway48476 »

bawolff wrote: post #222
JohnMakin wrote: post #172

Still cannot get the images of the Ethiopian famine out of my head - truly horrific stuff. I’ll let people smarter and more powerful than me debate what could/should be done - I’d personally hazard a guess nothing short of military intervention can stop something like this but that has its whole slew of unintended side effects. It seems like there are enough resources in the world to prevent things like this, at leas…

I guess the problem is nobody wants to "own" countries anymore. Probably for good reason, colonization caused a lot of evil. However if you want to make a country do what you want, you can't just blow it up and then expect them to listen to you. Controlling people requires actually controlling them, and that is icky.

Debt bondage is much cleaner.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#266

Post by lazyasciiart »

asdf6969 wrote: post #252
EasyMark wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because humans feel compassion for their fellow human beings and if we don’t then what’s the point? It doesn’t cost that much to feed a famine to be honest, much less than blowing up the same country when it’s starts hosting a terrorist org that makes you the next great Satan to blow up because you exist?

Have they asked you for help? Mind your own business

Yes. https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2024/08/02/food-k...

https://mutualaidsudan.org/

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#267

Post by JohnMakin »

istinetz wrote: post #262
JohnMakin wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily my thoughts on this site don’t dictate what international governments do, but thanks for your input?

If you don't want your opinion to be critiqued, you can simply not post.

There’s no critique though - simply tone policing while trying to push another argument entirely. I’m not even making whatever argument is being “critiqued” here. It’s simply bad posting.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#268

Post by lazyasciiart »

px43 wrote: post #260
asdf6969 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they asked you for help? Mind your own business

Maybe that's something. Maybe goodwill would be more effective when laundered through existing family connections. Surely someone in the midst of the famine has family in the US. Maybe support groups should be working directly with family members in wealthier countries, and then resources hand delivered to family members living in impoverished areas who can then distribute the resources through their local networks.…

https://mutualaidsudan.org/

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#269

Post by throwaway48476 »

crop_rotation wrote: post #146
eej71 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You suggestion below is getting downvoted which isn't that surprising given the general tilt of HN. But I think there is a related question that's a bit better to ask. What are the social, political, cultural and intellectual preconditions of a free society? What ideals and values does the culture need to hold before you can have a stable government that in a general way - values liberty for its citizens? While I'd l…

You raise some excellent points. > What are the social, political, cultural and intellectual preconditions of a free society? I think societies don't become free before they get prosperous. Having lived in dirt poor societies and posh societies, individual freedoms culturally seem to have a strong tie to prosperity. When you are so inter dependent for survival on your social network, the concept of freedom or individ…

This is simply untrue.

The aspects of modern 'free society' evolved from the complex legal environment of rights and privileges in the middle ages.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#270

Post by Jensson »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #264
Jensson wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and China still central planning Every country has some central planning, China doesn't have much more central planning today than your average European country. Or do you believe some CCP central planner decided to put in scantily clad anime girls in games from China? China today is very capitalist, they lack democracy, not capitalism.

I would probably focus on the government-mandated construction of new cities and control over which citizens go to university and where they can live, and that there is a wide spectrum of control between the USA and central planners managing the graphics in video game production.

> control over which citizens go to university and where they can live

I am pretty sure Chinese citizens are allowed to live where they can afford and they are allowed to go to university if they score well enough on the public tests. Just like in Europe.

If you are talking about the random arrests that happens in China, that is due to the undemocratic authoritarian regime and corruption, not due to central planning.

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