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Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

economist.com

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Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#251

Post by golergka »

csomar wrote: post #236
yunohn wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Completely stay out of their business and let whatever emerges from the chaos develop on its own? This simply never happens. The developed world is constantly putting its nose into everyone else’s business, and through globalization and industrialization, there’s nothing on this world that the Western economy doesn’t touch.

> This simply never happens. China did well after their cultural revolution. Took time but the page has been turned on that episode.

It did well because of Kissinger and relationship with US.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#252

Post by asdf6969 »

EasyMark wrote: post #240
jksflkjl3jk3 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about going in the other direction? Completely stay out of their business and let whatever emerges from the chaos develop on its own? Central planning of societies doesn't have a good track record, especially when there are competing external interests. Look at the horrific consequences of the American meddling in geopolitics of the third world over the last 100 years. The CIA and war industry is responsible for…

Because humans feel compassion for their fellow human beings and if we don’t then what’s the point? It doesn’t cost that much to feed a famine to be honest, much less than blowing up the same country when it’s starts hosting a terrorist org that makes you the next great Satan to blow up because you exist?

Have they asked you for help? Mind your own business

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#253

Post by marxisttemp »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #185
jksflkjl3jk3 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about going in the other direction? Completely stay out of their business and let whatever emerges from the chaos develop on its own? Central planning of societies doesn't have a good track record, especially when there are competing external interests. Look at the horrific consequences of the American meddling in geopolitics of the third world over the last 100 years. The CIA and war industry is responsible for…

This is an excellent option if you are willing to accept hundreds of millions of people will die in the process and that it will take a hundred years or more for that to happen. Development does not happen overnight and it takes a toll. That being said, my impression is that the people leaning left in politics are strongly against non-interventionism. This means it will become a political issue in the countries that…

I think you’ll find it is the right wing who find themselves invariably attracted to war.

Unless you’re using “the left” to mean “neoliberals”, as seems to be common among the American right, in which case let me refer you to the first paragraph (since the American Democratic Party is by all measures a right wing party).

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#254

Post by lnxg33k1 »

squigz wrote: post #242
jksflkjl3jk3 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War and conflict and the resulting devastation is part of human nature, as it has been for all of our species' history. Why would you expect that to have changed in the last 20 years?

We've managed to generally stop doing lots of things that one might say are 'part of human nature' - because the most important part of human nature is our ability to reflect on our nature and improve it.

It is not that we've stopped, we've made it harder in some parts of the world, by adopting a liberal form of government and splitting powers. Remember what happened just few years back with Trump and the assault on congress.

Or extremists gaining power, it's not that we've improved, it's that people had enough to eat. But it's slowly changed also here, you can be pragmatic or starving, but not both.

But other democracies and governments are not as strong, and of course, in the west we're enjoying some level of stability that also is a result of exploitation of other parts of the world that is then fighting over a limited amount of remaining resources

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#255

Post by [deleted] »

185504a9 wrote: post #190
throwaway3521 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for a context here: I actually live in almost-third-world country. Thankfully no famine and loss of live but extremely dysfunctional state and society and with educational system collapsing - probably no future. My countrymen, we, could not govern ourselves. I wish this country was occupied and someone built better society!

Not even pretending to make a rational reply here, but I've seen a lot of despicable stuff on the internet and this comment may be the one that made me the angriest. I really hope this is some sort of satire because my blood is about to evaporate. Jesus fucking Christ

[deleted]

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#256

Post by NewJazz »

Jensson wrote: post #239
NewJazz wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, the article's use of the word is what is pointless. At no point, besides the title, does the article make mention of anarchy or chaos. Rather, the article pretty clearly states that the famine is a result of a civil war between the government and a paramilitary group that was previously given weapons by the government. Liberal politicians (and less commonly journalists) like to latch onto the words a…

Civil wars tend to create anarchy, it is the anarchy that causes the famine wars themselves doesn't inherently do it. For example the American civil war didn't create anarchy, the states continued to function on both sides so there were no mass starvation events.

Anarchy is when two factions try to govern instead of one? It is an interesting take. I can't say it makes sense.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#257

Post by JohnMakin »

csomar wrote: post #235
JohnMakin wrote: post #172

Still cannot get the images of the Ethiopian famine out of my head - truly horrific stuff. I’ll let people smarter and more powerful than me debate what could/should be done - I’d personally hazard a guess nothing short of military intervention can stop something like this but that has its whole slew of unintended side effects. It seems like there are enough resources in the world to prevent things like this, at leas…

> I’d personally hazard a guess nothing short of military intervention can stop something like this Please don't guess, then? The famine started because of a military intervention gone south. The reality is that the Sudanese are a victim of circumstance. A war between some Arab rulers over who controls the Sudan.

Luckily my thoughts on this site don’t dictate what international governments do, but thanks for your input?

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#258

Post by golergka »

apexalpha wrote: post #59
dotancohen wrote: post #23

[flagged]

Gaza is not just about the suffering but also the fact that the suffering is directly caused by a rich Western nation enabled by all other rich Western nations. As far as I can tell the US is not supplying the army of Sudan with billions of cash, munition, weapons and unconditionally political backing.

[flagged]

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#259

Post by drivebycomment »

jksflkjl3jk3 wrote: post #157
Aeolun wrote: post #91

> only the third time in the past 20 years Only the third time in the last 20 years? I thought we were firmly past this…

War and conflict and the resulting devastation is part of human nature, as it has been for all of our species' history. Why would you expect that to have changed in the last 20 years?

https://ourworldindata.org/famines

Humanity has reduced famine dramatically over the past 100+ years. If Sudan famine ends up having the higher end of the estimate for deaths, it will likely reverse the clear downward trend, which should be alarming.

Re: Anarchy in Sudan has spawned the world’s worst famine in 40 years

#260

Post by px43 »

asdf6969 wrote: post #252
EasyMark wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because humans feel compassion for their fellow human beings and if we don’t then what’s the point? It doesn’t cost that much to feed a famine to be honest, much less than blowing up the same country when it’s starts hosting a terrorist org that makes you the next great Satan to blow up because you exist?

Have they asked you for help? Mind your own business

Maybe that's something. Maybe goodwill would be more effective when laundered through existing family connections. Surely someone in the midst of the famine has family in the US. Maybe support groups should be working directly with family members in wealthier countries, and then resources hand delivered to family members living in impoverished areas who can then distribute the resources through their local networks. Rather than just drop shipping a bunch of boxes full of food or whatever.

Let the heroes be local heroes, not just some abstract alien organization that no one has any social connection to.

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