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EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

digitalcourage.social

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Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#211

Post by nforgerit »

megous wrote: post #182
nforgerit wrote: post #123

German government will print out all messages on paper and hire thousands of civil servants to read each message. It's gonna be a Beschäftigungswunder.

Well somewhere in Czech Republic, some public servants are receiving well formed digital XML messages, and transcribing values from them manually to an information system. Sometimes they make a mistake and swap some values, which is how we know. Information age is upon us.

Our governments are a swamp of incompetence concerning anything "Information age". But still my fav story is from the private sector:

In order to "merry" digital and paper form data, they set up a system to send paper forms to Swiss post ("digitization-as-a-service") who routed them to (afair) Bangladesh where cheap workers (used to a wholly different alphabet) manually transcribed stuff as XML and uploaded it to some ftp directory. We SWEs then were supposed to build automated systems based on that handwritten XML data. Obviously, the cost they reduced with cheap labor they had to pay multiple times to have us building a resilient data ingestion system. Why again are we okay with having lawyers and MBAs making decisions?

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#212

Post by baxtr »

jbstack wrote: post #173
baxtr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one real good test of a democracy is to plot a line with years and above the name of the person ruling the country. In the US you will see at least every 8 years a different name on top of the line. I think a good democratic system will not have a new leader every year but maybe every 4-8 years. Anything below won’t be stable enough for mid/long term policy changes. Anything above will be good for the leader…

It's a good test of one aspect of a democracy, but a democracy is more than just its leader. A strongly independent judiciary is also a crucial element for a fair and free democracy. In my view the US fails in this regard. Its supreme court is effectively made up of politicians; judges with party affiliation who are appointed for life for partisan reasons. Its rulings frequently end up being split down party lines wh…

Yes of course, it tests only one aspect of a democracy.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#213

Post by dandanua »

poincaredisk wrote: post #185
dandanua wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are people who believe that their job is more important than anything else and that they deserve to have the "sudo tools" I don't care in what they believe or how they explain they need in the total control over you. In fact, it's just a slavery, and I'm sure internally they know that and they like that. For some people it's the meaning of life to achieve that kind of power over other people. Unfortunately, a…

You assume a lot of bad intent where there is (usualy) none. I worked with people related to cybercrime investigation a lot, and they are always driven by idea to help people. But when you see for a hundredth time that a struggling single mother loses her life savings because she fell victim to a phishing scam, you start being angry at the criminals. And when you invest months of your life to locate the perpetrator,…

> a struggling single mother loses her life savings because she fell victim to a phishing scam

I thought the banking system was designed to reverse transactions (unlike cryptocurrencies). Why do you need finding the scammer for that?

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#214

Post by baxtr »

chgs wrote: post #181
baxtr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one real good test of a democracy is to plot a line with years and above the name of the person ruling the country. In the US you will see at least every 8 years a different name on top of the line. I think a good democratic system will not have a new leader every year but maybe every 4-8 years. Anything below won’t be stable enough for mid/long term policy changes. Anything above will be good for the leader…

So 8 years is fine but 10 isn’t? Policy dictated by a single elected leader is better than policy set by a group of elected people? Just because your cultural and educational background has told you that the relatively new US model of democracy is better than that of other countries doesn’t make it so.

This is all stuff you came up with. Not me.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#215

Post by minkles »

suslik wrote: post #118
minkles wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah normal here in the UK as well. I was at a party last year and someone just ordered coke off WhatsApp. This turned into a mess because they wanted to pay the "menu price" as advertised and two guys with a shooter turned up and took £500 off them instead of £200. So we have extortion, illegal drug dealing and illegal guns in one fine evening. ChatControl is not the solution however. Reporting it to the police didn…

> two guys with a shooter turned up and took £500 off them instead of £200 Did they at least leave the coke?

Yeah which my poor friend had to watch them snorting off his toilet seat.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#216

Post by wkat4242 »

vetinari wrote: post #39
simion314 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know Orban changed the electoral law, he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary (weird to vote for shit that does not affect you), the people in cities are not voting for him so he gets the votes from uneducated people that do not know a foreign language and get indoctrinated by the Orban controlled media. He is also super corrupt and Putin fanboy so most online English support he gets are from Ru…

> he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary That is pretty standard for EU voting; as long as you are citizen, you can vote, usually by mail or by visiting your embassy. Otherwise, I happen to agree with you -- why you should vote, if you don't feel the impact of your vote? > the people in cities are not voting for him That's the common occurrence, people in cities are easier to influence due to density; US a…

Yeah I wish that within the EU we could just vote for the country we live in rather than the one we were born in. It would make so much more sense.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#217

Post by minkles »

Djdjur7373bb wrote: post #117
minkles wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah normal here in the UK as well. I was at a party last year and someone just ordered coke off WhatsApp. This turned into a mess because they wanted to pay the "menu price" as advertised and two guys with a shooter turned up and took £500 off them instead of £200. So we have extortion, illegal drug dealing and illegal guns in one fine evening. ChatControl is not the solution however. Reporting it to the police didn…

The solution to that problem is simple: legalize the sale of all drugs. Extortion is a common practice of drug gangs, whether they sell online or not.

The social problems, mental health and physical health issues related to cocaine, legal or not, far outweigh the benefits of legalising it.

I'll add that my cousin was stabbed 6 times by a coke head flat mate who had a psychotic episode.

And I haven't started on the slavery side of the production side of the supply chain.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#218

Post by dandanua »

loa_in_ wrote: post #190
Tade0 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there's precedent in court regarding that? I mean, how does one prove that a message is anything but gibberish if they don't have the means to decode it?

I can XOR it with a "key" to produce any message I want!

Shut up, or future fascists prosecutors will use this trick to blame everyone with everything.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#219

Post by dekken_ »

xinayder wrote: post #11
tmpccc wrote: post #3

I am in favor of ChatControl for politicians only: https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/two-agencies-... "The Ombudsman accused von der Leyen and the Commission of ‘maladministration’ for failing to produce the deleted text messages, challenging the belief that such texts did not qualify as ‘documents’ under EU law."

And yet, they included a clause in the law that government should be excluded from this state surveillance.

It's almost as if they suspect everyone else is similarly, a criminal.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#220

Post by aguaviva »

aaomidi wrote: post #207
sevnin wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-russian? Russia is a major security threat to Lithuania that engages in cyber warfare, disinformation and sabotage campaigns. - Two months ago there were major arson attacks and failed attempts linked to Russians in multiple states like Poland and Germany. - Russian linked agents at the beginning of school year dissiminated false information about bombs being planted at schools in Lithuania which disrupted the p…

So you agree with OP. Just say it’s to stop Russia.

The point here is -- it's not like the threat from Russia isn't (unlike the hypothetical threat from terrorists) entirely real.
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