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EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

digitalcourage.social

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Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#201

Post by hnlmorg »

vasco wrote: post #200
hnlmorg wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to comment on that case without knowing what was Tweeted but on the surface of it, I do agree with you. However he wasn’t sent to jail and thus it wasn’t the incident the GP described. What the GP was referring to was those jailed for inciting violence and hatred during the wave of riots the UK suffered last month. Their actions were a lot worse and had real world, tangible, effects on people and their prop…

> What the GP was referring to was those jailed for inciting violence and hatred during the wave of riots the UK suffered last month. My friend, I didn't refer to that at all, there's no need to lie. You were referring to those cases, not me.

Then perhaps you can share what other recent cases there have been of people jailed for posting stuff online.

And please don’t call me a liar. You said it was recent, and they were jailed. I don’t know of anything else besides the incidents I’ve covered. Worst case is I’m misinformed. And if that’s the case then I’m sorry. But I assure you that I’m not a liar.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#202

Post by fsflover »

tsujamin wrote: post #166
heckelson wrote: post #132

The worst thing about this is that we the citizens have to fight this every time, but if this just passes one single time we may lose our rights on this issue forever.

Binding commitments or laws preventing the adoption of this sort of scheme could be lobbied for by citizens, but in reality I think your point holds

Perhaps we can support organization like EDRi to fight for us continuously.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#204

Post by vorticalbox »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #174
chii wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> terrorist ... CSAM it's always the terrorists and the children. It turns off the logical, rational thought centers in the brain, and convinces ordinarily rational people to accept these poorly thoughtout security measures. As a civid duty, you must fight against measures like these that erode security and privacy. It sucks, because the reward is "nothing", and you must forever maintain vigilence against constant re…

Even if that argument somehow statistically works/worked, sometimes it should be mentioned: I would rather have some 3 terror attacks more per year, than having privacy of millions invaded and our way of living destroyed, just to prevent those 3 cases. It would be letting the actual terrorists determin how we live, what rights and privacy we are allowed to have.

Terrorists would just either add e2e over existing apps or just move to ones that support it.

Criminals tend to not care about the law even making e2e illegal would do very little to stop anything.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#205

Post by lofaszvanitt »

dns_snek wrote: post #163
lofaszvanitt wrote: post #128

It would help a lot if counter-terrorism and other organisations fighting this kind of threat would publish a quarterly or annual summary (idk which is plausible) of the threats they've averted, the perceived number of threats they think are lurking out there, the number of cases that have not yet been solved and need to be taken down, etc. etc.

It would help whom and to achieve what? How do we know they're not lying? And how do those numbers justify irreversible surveillance of everyone's most private thoughts? A terrorist organization isn't going to use Facebook Messenger to discuss their plans, they'll use a vetted application that doesn't have a backdoor.

[flagged]

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#206

Post by simion314 »

buran77 wrote: post #140
vetinari wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your family and friends know, what is best for them and can vote for themselves. Meanwhile, you are abroad and do not have clear idea about the local situation; you are going to have one of game of telephone one (I know, I also lived abroad for a while). As a result, you might do more damage than helping.

> you are abroad and do not have clear idea about the local situation You're walking a path you're almost guaranteed not properly equipped for. Probably nobody is but knowing not to charge ahead would already mean a lot. If having a clear idea about the local situation is a prerequisite then what happens with locals exposed to misinformation? Do they lose the right to vote? Do you test people in advance to evaluate t…

My initial comment was not clear, by I am referring of Hungarian citizens that are part of other countries like Romania, this people do not have relatives in Hungary, never lived there, will not move there.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#207

Post by aaomidi »

sevnin wrote: post #194
johngladtj wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lithuania? Just pitch it as a way to fight back against Russia, and it will pass in a jiffy just like all the other anti-russian laws they've been rolling through

Anti-russian? Russia is a major security threat to Lithuania that engages in cyber warfare, disinformation and sabotage campaigns. - Two months ago there were major arson attacks and failed attempts linked to Russians in multiple states like Poland and Germany. - Russian linked agents at the beginning of school year dissiminated false information about bombs being planted at schools in Lithuania which disrupted the p…

So you agree with OP. Just say it’s to stop Russia.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#208

Post by simion314 »

vetinari wrote: post #39
simion314 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know Orban changed the electoral law, he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary (weird to vote for shit that does not affect you), the people in cities are not voting for him so he gets the votes from uneducated people that do not know a foreign language and get indoctrinated by the Orban controlled media. He is also super corrupt and Putin fanboy so most online English support he gets are from Ru…

> he uses the votes from Hungarians outside Hungary That is pretty standard for EU voting; as long as you are citizen, you can vote, usually by mail or by visiting your embassy. Otherwise, I happen to agree with you -- why you should vote, if you don't feel the impact of your vote? > the people in cities are not voting for him That's the common occurrence, people in cities are easier to influence due to density; US a…

>Yes, this is what the (modern|progressive|educated|whatever) tell to themselves to fell on high horse in their bubble.

Right, the peasants with no education and only watching state TV are clearly the ones without a bias, their children that went to university, got a good job, know english are the one brainwashed by CIA/Israel and the evil LGBTQ. I read so many cases of educated Hungarians or Russians ashamed of the level of brainwashing of their parents.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#209

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #127
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #2

And it will never disappear from the agenda. Chat control is widely popular among some influential parts of the population. After the attempted terrorist attack in Vienna for the Taylor Swift concert the topic didn’t leave Austrian media. A lot of parents are in favor of this independently of terrorism because of fear of CSAM. There is an awful lot of lobbying going on and given history of EU regulation this can only…

> A lot of parents are in favor of this independently of terrorism because of fear of CSAM. A transparent CSAM checking process would be funny.. Imagine a 18, 19 yo., relatively skinny girl with small breasts (or a guy with a small dick) sending such a picture to her long-term boyfriend (...), and then getting messages from the system: - "hello, our AI thinks your boobs are underage, we sent the photo to police stati…

CSAM scanning is in effect on multiple messenger services for two years or so. Also in the US.

Re: EU ChatControl is back on the agenda

#210

Post by fsflover »

2-3-7-43-1807 wrote: post #8

Okay, so all Western societies are bound to go surveillance state in near future, unchecked by judicial forces and social credit systems to top it off. It will happen and we can only postpone it. What is the response to that of the technologically competent segment of society? Will this give birth to a rogue cyberpunk culture of hackers and cowboys? Or are we facing an era resembling a black mirror episode with smile…

> What is the response to that of the technologically competent segment of society?

Support https://edri.de (EU) and https://eff.org (US).

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